The "Reason", "Logic", "Facts", and "Evidence" of today...

in #uraniumone7 years ago (edited)


As I was working on the HEADLINES post for @newsagg today I finally made it to the #news section where I put steemit news in there. I try to put news based upon what people are interested in. The only time I skip stories is if they are more of the same of something I already posted, or if they are some daily crypto thing that is already itself an aggregation service of sorts. I do often post crypto links from #news, but I try not to flood the entire steemit section with them and I do tend to focus on the ones that are not some daily aggregator.

Well today I encountered @davidpakman's post Fox News Anchor DESTROYS Clinton Uranium Conspiracy Theory.

Now I don't really care one way about Fox or the other. I consider them Mainstream media. They may be the only "right" leaning mainstream media outlet, but they are still mainstream media. I don't actually watch mainstream media other than what I encounter as I am putting together a news aggregation post. I am not a fan of mainstream media, and this includes Fox.

Anyway, earlier I'd been listening to people discussing Jeff Sessions and how we was asked if he would provide a special investigation council for this Uranium One issue, as well as the dozier. This means there has been no investigation.

So considering there has been no investigation the title of @davidpakman's post is pretty HUGE and major. I had to stop making the aggregator post to go look. It is primarily a video so I started watching it.

Now I really had everything I needed to know in the first 20 to 30 seconds but I gave David the benefit of the doubt because this is Steemit. People seem to be pretty intelligent here. So while his introduction was full of red flags I thought I should at least listen to what convinced him the Uranium One claims were "Destroyed".

Let me jump to the end before I go into why I really wrote this post. They were not destroyed. Which is kind of expected when there has been no investigation.

Yet this did illustrate a problem with society today and it is not a "left" or "right" thing. A lot of people do it. The mainstream media is very bad with it.

First let's use what is called an Appeal To The Stone. This is basically treating absurdity as proof against something without providing the evidence to prove something is absurd. The person will simply start talking as though it is absurd from the beginning. The Appeal To the Stone is typically accompanied by an implied Appeal To Authority. they are hoping that your view of them as an "authority" or as "intelligent" is sufficient proof to back up their claims of something being absurd. This is not proof. These are logical fallacies. Yet in these days they are used extensively.

I could hear the Appeal To The Stone in the first 19 seconds of his video. I responded at length to his post, and in hindsight I am not certain I should have bothered. I've seen others of his posts. People eat this stuff up.

Yet, it was a good teaching example on some common techniques used that are fallacies these days and because people don't know about such fallacies and critical thinking is not really taught it is something I try to do. I want people to think. I want people to see when logical fallacies are being used to manipulate them.

So when an appeal to the stone comes into play if the person is somehow believed in their expression of something being absurd an Appeal to Emotion kicks in. Most people don't like to be perceived as a fool. So at this point something is being expressed as absurd with or without evidence. Our desire not to be perceived as foolish kicks in and sometimes we are already being swayed towards agreeing simply due to not wanting to seem foolish for taking a serious look at something this "authority" believes is absurd. We want to fit in.

At this point we are already in a losing situation. We are concerned about believing something that might be absurd. Our emotions kick in and we are viewing something as FACT and as though EVIDENCE was presented simply based upon our emotions, an Appeal To The Stone, and possibly an Appeal To Authority.

This is used against us often.

So I listen to David's video some more. Eventually it gets to a Trump video and you can hear David snickering as Trump is speaking. Need to add that laugh sound track. This is more Appeal To The Stone. Further making you think it is absurd before a SINGLE fact or piece of evidence was presented.

Eventually we make it to the brief snips from the Fox News story that David thought were worth sharing. He did indicate we could look it up and watch the entire thing ourselves. You should, if you think this actually "destroyed" something that hasn't been investigated.

The first thing I noticed was that the Fox anchor stated the Accusation. Yet the accusation stated was only ONE part of a many part thing that is Uranium One. The anchor also did his own appeal to the stone moments. He also made some statements as though they proved anything, when they actually were irrelevant to the claim.

He started by saying Hillary couldn't approve the sale of Uranium One as Secretary of State as it was not an authority given to the Secretary of State. Yeah, people making the claim are not saying SHE DID IT BY HERSELF, nor are they saying she had the power to approve it.

So this is another chance to show some common logical fallacies. If you are married, and occasionally have verbal disagreements with your spouse you may have experienced something like this.

So I am arguing with my wife and she makes a claim about one of our kids. I say "Okay you are going to go tell them X and see how they react?" and she will agree. I'll then listen to her go and say X modified and stated to lead them to the answer she wants them to provide. This was not what we agreed to it was changed when she actually did it.

This is what this Fox Anchor is doing. The accusations/allegations are many faceted for one thing. The Fox Anchor is stating the accusation is X, and he is wrong. That is not the allegation. It is part of it.

He has the clear disdain in his voice that is going for that Appeal To Emotion, and Appeal To The Stone.

This is NOT proof. It is NOT evidence. His lack of knowledge on the subject does not mean his opinion "destroys" anything.

David's use of the word "destroys" in the title had some great emotional weight. It is a common technique used on all sides.

Why? Many people think opinions are evidence. They are not. Many people think emotions are proof. They are not.

I encourage you to take time to look yourself. There are tons of examples of things like this, and they don't occur only with those that appear to be "left" or "right".

Anyone can resort to such tactics. We haven't been taught not to. Why? These are some of the best tools available for propaganda, but they only work if you don't notice them.

Let's get more people noticing common logical fallacies. Let's return to a time when Reason, Logic, Facts, and Evidence actually fit what their label was created to mean. Let's stop passing off speculations, opinion, and emotion as fact.

Let's stop trying to win an argument by making people be afraid to appear a fool due to thinking for themselves.

I also want to close that maybe they will disprove Uranium One. I am skeptical as I have actually done some research and looked into many of the different pieces of evidence. That doesn't mean it won't be disproven. One thing is certain it won't be disproven by using Appeals to The Stone, Appeals to Emotion, or Appeals to Authority. Those things prove nothing.

Sort:  

I noticed one glaring typo, where "disdain" was misspelled. I will therefore seize upon this flaw to disregard everything you wrote!

But seriously, jesting aside, well done.

Cool thanks for the editing. It is far from perfect, but I will correct that one. Some of the phrasing I used was a bit odd in places.

The inner editor is both a blessing and a curse for those of us who care about wordsmithing.

I care, and I welcome it when it is not an actual attack, which yours was not. Ultimately the purpose of words is to communicate. If you know what the person meant to say then ideally they are communicating. Some people can get too fixated on spelling and miss the message. You are not one of those, so I didn't mind, and actually welcomed it.

I was including you in the blanket "those of us" statement. No worries!

To many buy into it...

you misplaced a comma.
Your argument is invalid.
Stoned huh.....(puff)...yeah man....it has an appeal
(cough)(cough)

er.

I mean. You make a very compelling argument. Back in the day my wife took a college course call 'Argumentation ' (or something)...I felt that I was an expert on that subject. I read her textbooks..

GOLD MINE...I discovered logical fallacies.
Fun of just kidding around but it's an instant 'credibility looser' if I'm debating someone and they use it.

carry on.

Gold. chuckle

You use a book to cheat! Cheater.

that was SO last century.
Now I have THIS

Yep, I revisit that page and some others a few times a year to pick some new fallacies to get better at.

this came as a shock to me BUT.
a lot of folks have no idea.
They seem to think that logical fallacies arn't and that using them is just fine.
amazing.

Most people have no clue what a logical fallacy is beyond 2+2=4 . If you say 2+2=5 they "get" fallacy then. Unless they are learning Common Core then that statement might be considered true.

I believe there is a reason this stuff is not taught. It is like getting a mental prescription for your mind and suddenly you notice all the bullshit used around us and passed off as fact based purely off of the logical fallacies they don't teach.

That's the windmill I tilt at. I want more and more people to start learning this shit. I think it gives us a chance.

(shameless self aggradation?...no that's not right....agrandizement?...agriculture?....aggravation? phui...

self promotion....)
I address that very topic in my books...particularly "Q"
being serialized now.

I'll have to read them from the beginning.... :)

I've been meaning to among the many other things I've been meaning to do, yet that one I am serious about and will read. I want to read the Yggdrasil (sp?) one as well. :)

Me appealing to the stone

I been called an expert in this field...

I know you don't partake but maybe you can find a smile just the same..
Hoping you Have a great day!!

I may not partake, but family members do and I am an advocate for legalizing ALL drugs. I don't believe in banning things. I believe we should instead teach responsibility and let people make their own choices.

Oh and I did partake before about 31 years ago. :) Also around the time I last drank alcohol.

"Let's get more people noticing common logical fallacies. Let's return to a time when Reason, Logic, Facts, and Evidence actually fit what their label was created to mean. Let's stop passing off speculations, opinion, and emotion as fact."
This is the next step to saving intelligence as we know it. The problem is entitlement is running crazy in the world and as more people feel entitled to their opinions on-line the more we move away from reality. Anyone can freely post whatever they want on line and there is always going to be another uneducated person who agrees and places false value upon the false information. People try to force the freedom of information as a world saving action but in reality it is fully becoming a freedom of disinformation that people seem to gobble up and pass around because it fits their narrative. Keep putting the internet into anyone's hand who wants it and these problems will never go away. Keep allowing video's to be made and posted and then a false narrative being added to the film and thousands if not millions of people will be re-posting that same wrong information before anyone takes the time to disprove it. The real sad fact at the end of the day is you cannot fix stupid by allowing more people to access information and you really can't stop disinformation when people can make a living off of spreading it. Good luck in your campaign of pointing out the truth. It is a long upward battle and a lonely road to venture on.

Join me. It is difficult, but even changing one mind or perhaps planting a seed that leads to a changed mind is worth it as far as I am concerned. I might not be able to do much by myself, but with other people we can do a lot.

I've been on the internet for over 25 years, the real downfall came with smartphones. Any and everybody on the internet for entertainment, spreading hate, disinformation and all while trying to become famous. The key to saving more people is not an on-line battle. It is a battle to be fought in the real world starting at home. It is a parenting problem at heart again. Kids being raised by the internet and falling victim to those who look at life wrong.
I do my own truth battles but I am not going to waste all my outward energy on the problem as a whole. That is 95% of the problem those moving from YouTube are facing, they don't realize that it is not what they are posting but the comments that they delete from the comments section that is affecting their payouts. They are trying to control the narrative but blame it on YouTube when they get penalized for censorship.
Most people even when shown facts try to claim it's the facts that are fake because it doesn't fit their narrative. Prime example look at silver stackers who discredit all facts that silver is currently over valued due to collectors but try to tell you that they are holding the prices down overall.

I began using the internet in 1990. So I was there too. I was using it before web pages took off. Lots of Telnet, FTP, Archie, Gopher, Usenet, and listservs. :)

LOL, I have IBM serial numbered 23 which I just got out of storage. It hasn't been on in over 25 years. I am going to power it up and see if any of the old BB's are still up and running from back then. Should be a wild fun ride just to see what made it from way back then.

My first computer was a Timex Sinclair 1000 with 2K RAM. :) 1981 or 1982

Wow, I haven't heard of that brand since........well never heard of it. Hahahaha, that's old.

I had dreams of writing a Zork type game then, which was a new and exciting sounding game. I'd program in one room of text and be out of memory.

I wrote the BBs that were on my campus 1990-1994, likely still were there afterwards, though not modem based. I was in the middle of the mountains so modems didn't serve us very well up there other than accessing the college VAX and using that as our on ramp to the internet. Our college had a very nice internet bandwidth for the time though. It's location and the fact it was a State College provided some pretty nice data pipes for the time.

I'll have to dig out my TRS-80 III with tape drive during the holidays :)

I coded on one of those a lot in 1986-1987 time frame. IT is what my High School had for us to program on.

I saw this story earlier today and once again just shake my head at what passes for news reporting today. Amazing how he destroyed the story without one scrap of evidence. Somebody needs to tell this guy opinions are like assholes.

I also read your comment on the other post. Well stated. I noticed no one replied to it yet. Logic must have confused them.

Yeah I checked back to see if anyone else would join in. He has at least one whale that likes his post. Though I think he may be a youtube celebrity so the whale may be simply be trying to encourage people that come here. I can relate. Let's increase the value of steem. :) Yet, I'll also not blindly ignore fallacies.

Curated for #informationwar (by @openparadigm)
Relevance:Appeal to logic

your post is very very beautifull an very very great post.I love your post.

I had heard something like this earlier

That is amazing!!

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