Debate Forum - Week 7 - Sectarianism and Dogma
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Week 7 debate topic - Sectarianism and Dogma
It seems it is human nature to get attached to one form of group or another, whether it is for protection, influence or thousands of other reasons, we like our groups. Over time these groups have grown in size and power to the point where the members become followers. I've argued that it is even taken on feudalistic properties. Whether that is through religion or the state, the methodology may be different but the end result is the same. Sectarianism occurs when the attachment to these groups becomes excessive and the dogma of these groups manifest into the authority that we witness today in the state and most organized religions of the world.
This weeks Debate Forum question:
Should we be concerned about Sectarianism and Dogmatic authority and if so, why and how can we prevent it in the future? Please outlined your thoughts on how we can address those concerns if you feel there are any that need addressing?
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Yes! we should be concerned about Sectarianism and Dogmatic authority.
The pattern I see is that the first generation is genuine and usually has good ideals or causes that unite them. But then the second and 3rd generation takes over and they don't have that same passion. Their real goal seems to be only maintaining the organization. This is when things take the turn for the worse. Things to be concerned about or watch out for are when groups organize to the point that the organization takes on a life of its own. Like acquiring property, buildings, etc. We also have to know when the season is over and the people in the group need to move on. Reminds me of
Ecclesiastes 3:1 For everything there is a stated time, and a season for every event under the heavens:
John 3:8 The blast is blowing where it wills, and the sound of it you are hearing, but you are not aware whence it is coming and where it is going. Thus is everyone who is begotten by the water and the spirit."
Secterianism can be found everywhere remember that Jesus could easily be described as such where a man manufactures weapons in order to violently evicte the money changers from the temple because it broke with his domga.
Secterianism is often found where old dogma is threatned but it also describes very well most revolutions and peoples uprising.
Even the quote from Jefferson is dogma.
That is a really good point but I don't think that dogma and absolute truth are the same. For example am I being dogmatic when I insist that 2 + 2 = 4? Or am I being dogmatic if someone breaks into my house and I do whatever I can to defend my family?
Interestingly in one of the passages about Jesus doing this it talks about His zeal.
G2205 ζῆλος, zēlos, dzay'-los
From G2204; properly heat, that is, (figuratively) “zeal” (in a favorable sense, ardor; in an unfavorable one, jealousy, as of a husband [figuratively of God], or an enemy, malice): - emulation, envy (-ing), fervent mind, indignation, jealousy, zeal.
Which made me wonder what is the difference between being passionate about something and being dogmatic about something?
Any time someone tries to convince my they have the absolute truth I make sure not to drink the Koolaid.
dogma, ideology, or faith aren't really judged by a standard of absolute truth only by functional truth.
I might believe that I'm held to the ground by magical strings held by a wizard at the center of the earth while you believe its gravity while my belief may be far from absolute truth we both still gain from the functional truth of our belief and by conducting our live accordingly.
If you where to threaten my faith in the wizard I might very quickly appear to be excessive in my adherence to dogma after all your threat might end with me floating of into space.
Passion is valuable but most wouldn't kill or die over a zeal for knitting despite the warmth provided by a well knitted scarf.
so are you saying there isn't any absolute truth?
Wow huge question? A whole bebate on its own Getting into that one to much will take us way off topic.
I think there is probably an absolute truth but we are ill equipped to find and express it our thoughts and language including math are symbolic.
The map is not the territory and sometimes 1+1=1
I think we need to be careful in that dogma is defined as a set of principles laid down by an authority. If an individual expresses their own truth that is not dogma. However, if that truth came from an authority, then we can call it dogmatic. But each individual has their own truth and it is up to each individual to work through that truth. That is separate from fact as your mathematics is pointing out.
Agreed although when man is self governing he becomes his own authority and his own belief is dogma held as indisputably true.
This state may be preferable to external authority but both are a choice at an individual level.
Should we be concerned about Sectarianism and Dogmatic authority? Yes! the world is in the state that it is now because of this! Wars are based on Group ideals ultimately, but we never seem to look at it this way as a society. We think that we have to follow a certain path instead of being individuals, else we shall be left behind or penalised. I guess this is true to a certain extent however sometimes it is better to stand alone and be true to your own self rather than be a part of something you don't believe in.
How can we prevent it in the future? This is a tough one. we as humans, are happiest when someone else is in control. But the people who take control of the masses are usually not fit to govern the population as they are inclined to use their power for their own gain. I have always believed that humans are not capable of governing the masses. I think we should all learn to be responsible for our own lives and families to start with, then our surrounding communities. I don't think joining huge national groups or even worldwide groups, benefit the individual as you are just a statistic to those who make the decisions. we need to return back to when a community was based around knowing each other and helping each other as actual people.
I'm not convinced that we are happiest when others govern. I think it is easier, but that does not equate to increase happiness. I think it is our destiny to self-govern, but dogma gets in the way.
Yes, you are right. 'Happiest' was the wrong choice of word. What I meant is that as a species, we tend fall into a lazy way of living and follow like sheep. As you say it is easier if someone else takes all the responsibility for us. But sometimes, the easiest way, is not the best way
Yes. Absolutely. We are lazy and as a species we look for the easiest way through life. However, it is not the most healthy way through life. I find hard work and walking the less beaten path tends to be the one filled with spiritual growth. So now i don't shy away from the work because I know it is 'good for me'. :) Someone once told me, even when we achieve spiritual enlightenment, we still have to haul water! lol
Honestly, no, but there's a stipulation where I'm gonna say yes.
I'd say no, because people and things only have the power that we give them. In the past these groups had power, which caused fear, which attracted followers who were afraid of going against them. Now, these groups still have maintained power, but with blockchain technology we have the potential to change all that in a peaceful way.
We are starting to see that we don't need these groups, we can start doing everything that needs to be done on our own. If everyone realized this, we would have nothing to worry about from them. That's the thing though, people are so entrenched in the belief that we need people telling us what to do, how to act, where to put our money, what to believe, and what to learn.
The real struggle is going to be showing people that they are truly free, convincing them that we don't need to follow the dogma anymore. Now more than ever, we have this incredible ability to learn and communicate, but we are all still afraid of eachother. We have no trust, and when the majority of people hear something they don't already believe in, something that hasn't come from a reputable source (generally thought to be an authority like mass media for most,) then we disregard it, call people kooks, and even go so far as attacking these people spreading truth on a personal level.
People fear change, even if the change would free us from the prevalence of sectarianism authority we currently see. So currently I would say we don't need to worry, we need to be aware, and start revealing to others the fact that we have believed this dogma for so long. They may not see the truth in that at first, but it will work on them subconsciously.
Apologies for not taking a side and sticking with it, I don't think there is a clear side to pick for this discussion, because we grant power as a collective, no group has inherent power.
Yes, we need to be concerned!
I don't mind people getting together sharing their life, interest, and belief with one another. It's a healthy community when there are healthy interactions among its members. However, from my personal experience, I see problems start to occur when this group of people starts to contemplate acquiring properties especially lands owned by a name/trust created by the group. Then their focus shifts to money and power.
Long story short. I finally left that group and started to have fellowship with those who have the same thought against Sectarianism and Dogmatic authority owning properties. I can testify that life is much simpler and more productive this way! And I smile more. :-)
In conclusion, Sectarianism and Dogmatic authority shouldn't own properties. When that happens, I flee!
@wwf very excited to be involved and to win is fantastic if you haven't sent out the rewards could ask that you send the portion that comes from voting to the next person up the list.
I don't feel its in the spirit of the debate that i should be doubling up.
I will be back with my entry but need go go educate myself a little more
I am impressed @shai-hulud and I will do just that. Thank you for following the spirit of the debate and sharing your winnings. That would make @klevn the winner of the steem for his vote on your debate post. You are an honourable spiritual being. Thank you. The rewards will be sent out tomorrow morning as the post has yet to pay out. I look forward to reading your debate response after your research!
Thank you @wwf and @shai-hulud. I am grateful to have participated. I felt we had a good discussion.
@klevn I agree look forward to another discussion I hope.
A big YES on the payouts of the debates for giving me a steem power and a confidence boost as a newbie. I had less than 20 steem power when I won a debate. After the debate payout, my upvote value went from $0.00 to $0.01. I was so excited my upvote finally was worth something (even only a penny) to those who had spent time and effort writing their posts. :-) In addition, meeting new people and getting to know them better is another BIG bonus!
I think this is a very interesting topic that I can ponder about and come up with a response after that haha, and yes the payouts are a good boost and it gives people a chance to develop confidence and learn too, and meet others, so its good all around.
Thank you for the feed back. Great points. I agree that meeting people in the forum has been a bonus that I never anticipated as well. Thank you for pointing that out. I'm just hoping that the question is not too hard this week. lol Everyone is off to do research so far.
Definately need to think on this one, but I think it deals with some philosophizing that I am familure with.
This debate is over my head but things like this are helpful to grow new accounts :-)
Thank you. If you don't comprehend the debate, perhaps just let me know what you struggle with and I'll spend some time to explain it so that you can participate with the debate.
I also am not qualified to enter but am here to learn and at least i can vote.
love to read it..........