RE: Debate Forum - Week 8 - Guaranteed Income
First of all i would like Congratulate the winner of last debate and thanks to you for this educational contest which is actually sponsored by @FullTimeGeek
Well as of guaranteed income is concerned to me this is the most problematic and root cause of the societal problems. Such projects does not bother to develop the skills among the mass rather they focus on spoon-feeding. Life is not easy, everyone has to do the effort of his own how can Govt. can claim that they are not producing the Beggars by introducing such meaningless Projects?
To me it is basically a debate of Skill and Money. If you give money to the mass and don't make them aware that how it must be spent then all in vein but if you are going to develop Skills among them then definitely you're going to develop a very Functional & Welfare Society as a whole.
Thirdly, Such projects does not save the money of Govt. it causes corruption and more evil for the Poor. Such things make the people idle and useless for the society. I have read in many books of Religion and also in Philosophies books
Man gets whatever he strives for
So, basically here man is doing nothing except getting guaranteed income randomly.
How can he face the challenges of life then? Is not it creating disharmony in the society that Rich are enjoying the beauty of life while Poor are compelled to depend upon them? Is not it promoting Class-System about which Karl Marx talked?
Looking forward to get logical responses :)
I do think that the redistribution of taxes earned by extraction of natural resources to the people instead of to the state would be a much more positive move than todays system.
I think we can all agree that the state is by far the worst allocator of capital.
I also agree with you that redistribution systems are abused regularly by some of the recipients especially when the state has the authority to give you more or less dependant on how you jump through hoops for them. The state also consumes most of the money due their bureaucratic behaviours.
That's why the state must be removed from making the moral decisions.
I think Marx was all about state making decisions rather than the people deciding what to spend their money on, although its been a long time since I read any Marx
Well let me give this point another direction
To me the Govt. is the best collector of the Capital and also the best choice to distribute among the masses. Because Govt. knows where do invest and where is not needed yet because they look upon each and every factor in detailed by discussing it's pros and cons then they take a decision.
The point you arose that they are the worst option , Actually this is their Behavior which is worst due to corruption not at all the allocated Position is worst not the Govt is a bad option.
I see I was wrong we all don't agree that "the state is by far the worst allocator of capital."
If the state was the best allocator of Capital then societies where the state did have the control over the capital should have done very well. Communism and fascism had most of the capital directed by the state. ....
Indeed. It has been my position that guaranteed income only produces good consumers who are completely dependent upon the corporations for their needs. So the government is supporting their corporate buddies in making sure their customers can pay their bills. This learned dependency is extremely dangerous as we end up with multiple generations losing the skills required to be self-sufficient and independent. So how do we make that shift so that we can break those cycles and what would be involved to do that?
In my point of view there should be the involvement of
1-Educational Institutions
2- Political awareness is necessary
3-Religious scholars should come in between
4-Mass Media most important
Involvement of all these above factors can eradicate Poverty by giving the Masses Skills, Knowledge, Authority and Promotion.
Education can play a vital tole to build Skills among people.
Political Institution can create employment according to the skills given in the Educational institutions.
Religion can create awareness about ethical approach towards life. It can bring Morality and Brotherhood among mass.
Mass Media can promote a true message of the whole scenario in a very befitting way. For example by exposing the Govt.'s wrong doings and showing the facts to the mass.
In this way none is needed Guaranteed Income, rather they will ask for the skill development.
In a nutshell i would like to say; Make the People Educated and aware about the importance of a Skill instead of Money!
The irony is: Once an individual is independent and capable of providing for their own needs, jobs are no longer required. The only reason people need jobs is to pay the bills which is a symptom of their dependency. Once everyone is independent, the economy would collapse as we would no longer be dependent on it.
I think jobs will still be required for some people, no matter how independent we make ourselves . I will never be able to manufacture a laptop or a solar pannel for example. There will always be people who want to earn more and produce surplus goods. They can have jobs and work in the cities while the more independent minded can live on larger land and trade their surplus with the cities.
Well @wwf & @tony10 It is a fact that we just cant be independent 100%. Because we are humans the Social Animal we are born to depend on each other for both Socially and Economically just like the Barter System used to happen in the past. But Here i mentioned the name of Karl Marx who has huge work in the domain of Class-consciousness. My point is jobs can bring the Harmony economically among the Rich and Poor of the society.
@tony10 just just mentioned above
Lets discuss Dependency now , there are two concept of dependency in my mind
1- Dependency for Money on Bureaucrats
2- Dependency of Social Life including blood relations, Family etc
Dependency upon bureaucrats(Elite Class) can be minimized by competing them through equal right. Equal Rights in every walk of life for working class. So, i am still with this point that Political Institution can play a vital role here to create Employment for the mass so that poverty can be eradicated and less depended Poor Feel.
Dependency in relationship (Being Social Animal) ! well this can not be eradicated at all.
ahh, this is an important point that I missed
" So the government is supporting their corporate buddies in making sure their customers can pay their bills"
genius, this point I think cannot be overlooked in this arguement. Im writing it down lol.
wonderful discussion here, well said @salmanbukhari54. Interesting contest here. wish you best of luck.
i really aporeciated to @wwf for hosting such an useful discussion here.
knowledgeable debate organized by Sir @wwf. i am much impressed by you Mr @Salmanbukhari54