RE: Response to Automation: Universal Basic Income?
Hi @veritopian :) Do you care to point us in the direction of "real history books?" I was specifically mentioning the history of the last few hundred years. It's pretty well documented by scholars of that time, so I have no reason to believe other than that things generally sucked for humanity during the period immediately preceding the industrial revolution. Things have generally gotten objectively better since then.
I also believe the concept of a noble savage to be a myth as well. Also from early American and European scholars of the settlement era, it's evident that the Native Americans were constantly at war with each other when Europeans settled, and that while they may have been more at equilibrium with nature, that's not necessarily good for the people living in it. Nature, and the other life that has evolved around us, is constantly trying to cut our lives short, and overcoming it is of the utmost importance. They had short life expectancy, no modern amenities, and they were generally very ignorant of the world around them. Some even thought that the Europeans were gods because they wore armor and rode horses.
Being of libertarian/anarchist persuasion, I don't believe that government meddling in markets is a good thing at all. The way I see it, if we have robots to drive us around, we don't need to waste our time doing the miserable task of driving, especially in traffic. I'm actually an automotive enthusiast. I like to drive, but commuting back and forth to work in heavy traffic is one of my top 5 worst experiences in daily life today. The same goes for commercial drivers, a task which I did for a brief period as well. I can't imagine that many of them find sitting in one place for more than half the waking day while their circulatory and musculoskeletal systems atrophy, shortening their lives considerably, an enjoyable experience. If we get robot cars, we'll have fewer deaths for one, less stress in daily human life, and drivers, both personal and commercial, will be freed up to do more important and valuable tasks. I don't see a downside there.
Sure. Lots of info about the Taino, for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%C3%ADno#Culture
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/taino/taino-conquest.htm
"Although a peaceful people, the Taino did not simply sit around waiting for the Spaniards to bring about their destruction."...
If you don't believe in the 'noble savage', please read about Tecumseh. He was a great man.
As an Englishman, I know for certain that life on these isles has degraded in every important way for many hundreds of years. Where I live was where the last free hunter-gatherers lived in Britain until the 17thC when they too were genocided.
That's not correct. In many ways they were far superior to us. They lived longer, healthier lives, and understood reality far better than most westerners did, or do today.
Look at vids of modern-day hunter gatherers - e.g. in the Amazon, and see how at 60+years old they look about 40, and are still climbing trees for hours hunting monkeys.
I saw one vid, with an 80 year old, and he looked about 50.
We're taught at school, and by the media, that this is the best culture that's ever existed. Right? Do you think they may be hiding something?
This year, in England, we can expect perhaps 20,000-40,000 people to die of cold in the winter. These people don't have 'modern amenities'! Native people would never let their old folks die of cold!
(Last years 2015:)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather/11382808/Winter-death-toll-to-exceed-40000.html
See the link below. Life expectancy of 43 years. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/707491
I don't have a login for that. Funnily enough...
The move to agriculture from hunter-gatherer did cause a (big) drop in life expectancy, and they use those numbers:
http://www.rewild.com/in-depth/longevity.html
Also the stats are done "from birth", including child-mortality, which can skew results.
http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-evolution-human-origins/life-expectancy-myth-and-why-many-ancient-humans-lived-long-077889
Plenty more out there on this - I just did a quick search.
I take it you believe the cult-propaganda you were programmed with relentlessly at school and in front of the TV: "That this is the best society that's ever existed"?
Sorry to pop the old bubble mate, but it's all lies. This western 'culture' is more 'cult' than the Moonies...
Actually, reminds me, I just watched this on cult-behaviour. Listen, and see if you think government fits the bill of 'cult' according to the official definitions... ;)
Hmm, interesting. That site didn't require a login for me to read the article. Did you try x-ing out the prompt?
I haven't had time until now, but I also wanted to reply to your comment about lies and history. The lies I've seen about the Native Americans are just the same one's you're espousing here. You see, here in the states, they teach that the Indians were only victims, that they never attacked whites unprovoked, and that everything was stolen from them. They were noble and communal people who were in balance with nature according to my public education, and the whites came and killed them in an effort to steal everything they had. Do a little digging, and you'll find plenty of first-hand accounts of the treachery of Native Americans, in which some were conniving, evil, murderous and even cannibals. The only reason they had such harmony with nature is because it killed most of them at a young age and they were never able to conquer it.
That's not to say that white Europeans weren't without fault in all of this, or that as a culture it's perfect, but it certainly wasn't anything close to the genocidal mania it was characterized as by my school teachers and the Hollywood elite. Sorry to burst your bubble buddy, but what you're saying is the lie. The white people made numerous efforts to coexist with the natives, and they often were the first to draw blood.
Those 40,000 dead you talk about in England from winter weather are pensioners. What that means is that they are supposedly taken care of by the state, pointing to the fact that the reasons for their deaths isn't the lack of compassion and empathy in European culture for the elderly and infirmed. Quite the opposite. Most of these people wouldn't even be alive at this age in a hunter-gatherer scenario. They simply are more susceptible to cold than the young, and that's why we see more of them dying during winter. And yes, infant mortality definitely should count towards life expectancy numbers. They don't skew anything, they're important data in determining the health of everyone, not just the strong who are lucky enough to survive birth as in hunter-gatherer societies.