Better Than UBI: The insane story that people will be thankful for their chains.
The go to, good feeling story that proponents of Universal Basic Income (UBI) go for is that with UBI, the poor person can start lifting themselves out of poverty because now they will have some money, even a little, each month, to invest.
They love to shine the light on the people I would call the self-starter. A person that will find an opportunity and make the most of it. The person who is grateful for a hand out, and seeks to repay kindness.
The trouble with this story is that this type of person is rare.
So, the good feeling story about the kid who suddenly gets UBI and starts to make something of themselves is like finding a Charlie in the Chocolate Factory. Its a myth. A fairy tale. Because these people, given any opportunity quickly become middle class of better. Even the richest person in the world.
Do you know what minimum wage employers are looking for in employees, that is often so hard to get? Someone who arrives on time, most of the time. The bar is set really low.
Instead, what you find when you give the majority of people money is more complaining that you didn't give them enough money. Their expenses will quickly overtake whatever you give them. They cannot make a budget, nor could they stick to it. They can't defer gratification. They are black holes as far as money goes. (this comes from first hand and second hand experience. Also many books on the subject support this)
These people are an entirely different breed than the self-starters.
Further, poor people do not get any good feelings about being involved in the community or making anything of themselves from hand outs. Especially, hand outs that come from a nondescript govern-cement agency with no connection to the people from which the money is taken, or the community to which they should be grateful.
They will take a house and turn it into a pig-pen.
As the old story goes, casting pearls before swine.
So, we can put to bed the story that UBI will suddenly make everyone stop worrying about where their next meal will come from and allow them to put their energies towards becoming productive members of society. It just doesn't work out that way.
If we what we really want is to help out the poor, we should provide minimum housing, food and clothing. Not money. Further, if we really want to help, we start educating them about money and finances. (something they avoid teaching in govern-cement schools) Start giving incentivized programs that work with building self reliance and deferred gratification. And this may be so low/menial as to be paying someone to keep their tiny house clean.
If we really cared about the poor, we would never talk about UBI again.
I am not a proponent of UBI but I think that if it completely replaced all of the other welfare programs that exist that it could then be an improvement. Problem is that it never works that way.
I understand that sentiment. However, I do not trust the govern-cement that far.
UBI will be far from universal, although they will try to keep up appearances for a little while.
Imagine if they told private prisons that they get your UBI for keeping you in prison.
Then, more people would be going to jail for jay walking and chewing bubble gum.
And that is just the first thing I thought of.
I don't think it would work that way only because I think the government would be more inclined to keep the money for other purposes (and why would it be any different than welfare today...do prisons get the welfare payments that would otherwise go to the prisoners if they weren't in prison?). Regardless, the big problem I have is that they would never really give up the other welfare programs.
It's kind of like I feel about a VAT. I certainly don't support the idea of a Value Added Tax in general but I could get behind a VAT as a better alternative to all other federal taxes. But the government would never get rid of all other taxes or even if they did they would just bring them back later.
I do agree with you that the govern-cement would not give up their other programs. Becoming smaller is not on the agenda.
Call me crazy here though here me out, corporations get massive tax breaks, like Apple in the UK pay less tax in 1 year, than a single factory worker does, and Amazon etc etc, and they pay minimum wage to most employees, not all though most, the government has to subsidize the wages with benefits like working tax credit, and family benefits. How about a ubi based on free shares, in these shit companies, that rape the tax payer twice? then when people lose the job from these hell holes, they still have income for life, and the government does not have to pay benefits, this is after all a double fuck back from corporations.
Why are there corporate taxes at all? Ultimately do not the people working for the corporations pay the taxes? There are already income and capital gains taxes, what's the point of a separate corporate tax? I agree the system is absurd and tilted towards large corporations who gain by exploiting loopholes that smaller businesses cannot. But I say eliminate corporate taxes altogether. High corporate taxes only make the U.S. less competitive with corporations in other countries that pay less taxes anyway.
Tax breaks, whether they are for individuals or corporations aren't subsidies. They are just the government stealing less of their money.
I agree, scrap all tax, tax was only implemented to pay for the second world war ( source my mother) and never scrapped after, government got greedy and ever expanding, and did you not only get taxed in the USA after the introduction of the none federal, federal reserve?
I fully agree. There are very few reasons why someone in a Western country cannot live decently if they try.
The problem is that a lot of people are like what you wrote here.
It has been said that if you evenly distributed money to every person in the country, in a short time it would all go back into the hands of the wealthy.
I have personally seen entrepreneurs make money out of nothing.
And I have seen poor people take endless amounts of money and turn it into trash.
So, if the distribution happened, I am sure it will end up as you stated.
However, part of the wealthy are making money through stealing it from everyone else. That has to stop.
poverty is the result of human laziness itself.
laziness in work,
laziness in thinking and laziness in gratitude
Laziness is a result of corruption. When you realise your government is corrupt, that the idea we live in a democracy is illusory, that the idea we own property is illusory - try to stop paying taxes and see how long you get to keep your property. If you are near the bottom, why play the game?
If you produce nothing, your government cannot steal it from you for its corrupt ends. Alas, the greedier and more corrupt the top gets, the lazier the bottom will become.
There should be 2 categories, people who prove they can't produce if given the the UBI and people who can.
People who turn to alcoholics or drugs or can't pay their rent or manage their budget, it would all be based on vouchers and things similar to the current SNAP program.
But if you can keep your head above water, not break any laws, and at minimum prove that you are reading and writing, contributing to the civic discussion on something even like steemit, then you would get the $ and maybe a little bonus if you hit certain requirements to give you an incentive.
Really what there needs to be is a WPA like thing, where anyone on a given day can show up and just work on something. Sorting recycling is what comes to mind for me. There is actually a restriction on work though, it's capitalisms old trick of engineered scarcity. The truth is there is nearly unlimited things that need to be done.
People with mental health and drug addictions or who are simply disabled, that is a whole other category that shouldn't be managed with UBI, but with outright institutional management. The first thing anything a society should do is set up a space for the people we already know can't contribute or shouldn't expect to, who we know we are going to take care of because if we don't it will ruin our society anyway through other means.
The limiting of greed and total maximum ownership, such that no one can own enough to buy another person or operate a sex party island like epstein. When people have too much money they become the government and that's just tyranny, there can be no rule of law with that big of a power differential.
Schooling tends to teach people not to self-start, compare that to something like Project Runway, where everyone is expected to self start and immersed in that attitude. The chinese have made it an entire modus operandi for a billion people, they don't want self starters lol, that would cause trouble.
You are thinking about the reality of many situations.
The only thing I could argue is that I would like easier, more self regulating ideas.
If you offer just a room to sleep in (my previous post) then those who can afford better, and want better can get better. Self sorting.
The maximum ownership thing is complex. I would like to hamstring the "scarcity" mentality of our crony-capitalistic system. If everyone gets free minimum housing, food and clothing, then they can say no going to the island.
However,... like the complaints that have been printed about how hard it is to stay at the Play Boy mansion. Like, you have to stay fit. You have to keep up appearances. But no one is forcing anyone to stay, still women compete to get in there. And then complain about being there. I do not know what to do about it, accept provide the necessities and then not listen to the complaints.
until mental health issues are addressed among those who can't care for themslelves, which should be the first thing a society does, all attempts to help sane poor people will be hobbled by the chaos of living in the same buildings as untreated insane people. (bed bugs, night times disturbances, general filth, drug abuse)
This is why libertarianism makes really little sense to me, only something like socialism could ever handle the insane homeless. only people who care about their whole society could ever care enough about the actual reality of the situation enough to solve the root of the problem.
crazy people in places like 6th street in downtown los angeles are almost as bad as zombies would be. as long as people are treated like garbage, there will be garbage areas of the city. pretty simple equation.
thanks for the thoughtful response.
This Davos thing is on right now, and the loudest applause and cheers last year was for a banker (or wanker) that was talking about ubi, and said anyone that gets it has to vote in elections, no vote no ubi, you see what he did there? vote for your next oppressor and get your crumbs.
Yep, already putting stipulations on the "universal" basic income.
So, the proponents for UBI consider that govern-cement will be able to do, what they have never been able to do before. To not monkey with something.
Shit I could not imagine any government not messing with anything, I may need a licence to type one day, and a visit from health and safety to see if my wrists are in the correct position to type, I resent all politicians, with equal contempt and disdain. :-)
Very good points made here bud. I agrre that no matter how much you earn your budget moves accordingly. When we are poor we are made to want things we can't afford(Normally the basic things that make life easier ie car, quality food) As soon as anyone steps up to the next level they see that there wealth has looked at relatively. The grass is not greener and if you don't push through to the next level, you risk falling back down to the bottom. That is often too much for folk to take and then things can spiral out of control.
I am one of the black-holes, when it comes to money. I have been well-off and I have been too broke to buy food and after it all I have found a happy place in the middle. I have no attatchment to anything that isn't alive. They can take my TV and my Sofa but they will not take MY FREEDOM!!! Ha sorry had to say it :)
Great post fella. Upvoted.
It is indeed good to be able to recognize the stories told to each level (or moving the goal post). That more money doesn't really make you better off. Ask any working person if they have enough money, and its usually no. They are one paycheck from bankruptcy, no matter how much they make.
And, in our current political, police-state-light condition, it is almost essential to have the thoughts of letting go of everything. When the police come for you, you cannot defend your home. The only way is to be gone before the cruisers arrive.
Lol very wise words bro. "There you go, yep, you can take my shitty telly. It can be replaced."
I know it isn't the 'done thing' here but I use Lawful Rebellion to get rid of the goons and it has worked a treat. But that is only so far and I know that they will steamroll over us when they choose to. We all have to choose a weapon in these nutty times we live in today. Police state has gone crackers, your not wrong there! I'm saving for a boat and that's me done. Would be living in Oz if I was allowed to take my daughter with me. Good luck with your journey brother.
Speaking of boats, you may want to check this one out.
Quidnon - A house boat that sails
http://quidnon.blogspot.com/
Designed by an engineer that has live a lot on the water.
This thing has lots of very good design features for actually living.
It is not a racing yacht, but i feel it would go fast enough for anything else.
Haha! you had me at " This boat is a 3-bedroom with a kitchen, a sauna and a dining room".
My god this sounds awesome! And $50K that's ridiculously cheap. Thank you buddy. Much appreciated.
The deck is big enough to throw dance parties. It can be used as a river boat, a canal boat or even a beach house. Oh, and it's rugged and stable enough to take out on the ocean. Kits will start at around $50k (USD). The design has been tested in simulation and prototype; full-scale production will begin next year.
I'm in!
Or, we could cut out the middleman and just keep working while refusing to pay for anything.
We already carry the bums, but now the bums on the gov't payroll will be outed as bums, too.
I might definitely try that, as it would really shake up the system. However, I feel it would be exchanging one group of problems for another group of problems about the same size.
Any problems that include free living are problems I pick over the status quo.
When food, shelter, clothing, education, cars, phones, internet, electricity, and anything else are all free, who doesn't go down to the local community project and chip in?
Or find something productive to do at home?
I agree with the overall sentiment, but I want to point out that I don’t believe people are lazy bums by nature, they become lazy bums because the mainstream culture turns them into lazy bums, lazy bums spend money and that’s the point.
I don’t have a problem with people being bums, what I have problem with is the inflation that’ll be caused by UBI, something I think you’ve mentioned before. Your solution could help the, get out of the lazy bum habit too.
Yes, I agree, the lazy bum is not inherent. Just like children are filled with wonder to explore everything. It takes years of beating it out of them so that most adults never read a book again.
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