Trump's wall: A futile conversation
Maybe there are still some arguments about Trump's border wall which I haven't heard yet... But the ones that I have heard are rather pathetic. The wall conversation seems to go like this:
We need a wall to keep people out to stop them taking welfare.
Really? Do naturalised citizens actually take more welfare than natural born citizens on average? Do you have any statistics to back it up?
Hm I uh... I do have some statistics about how immigrants are more likely to vote Democrat.
Alright, that's something - not exactly what I was looking for though. You don't have statistics about why they vote Democrat. You know, even if people come to work in your country, they don't need to have citizenship, voting rights or welfare. People can get residency or working visas.
Ohhh yeah... I'm sure all the socialist politicians will maintain that rule even if it costs them votes.
Okay... but if you're going to play that card, there's nothing you can do politically to solve this problem. A wall certainly won't help. The socialist politicians will just fix things so people can walk right over.
Alright alright, we can go around like this forever. If we didn't have welfare, we wouldn't need a wall. But we have, so we do.
So building a wall that costs billions of dollars is a perfectly reasonable, rational and possible thing to expect, but attempting to curb welfare is impractical and impossible. I see.
Here's an interesting article which talks about why such a wall would be pretty useless: 8 things you need to know about Trump's wall
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We definitely need a wall.
A wall around the 69 sq. miles of the foreign occupied territory on the Potomac River. If we put a wall around this area, we could contain a huge portion of the people known as war mongers, liars, cheats and thieves. The worst of the worst could be kept from ever harming humanity again.
We definitely need to build this wall!
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None of it matters except the fact that they are criminals. It is a felony to immigrate without following the process. Criminals are not citizenship material, we have enough as it is. I have way better ideas than a wall, but I'm not president, and this is not the auto da fé.
When you say they're criminals, do you mean that they've hurt somebody, stolen their property, defrauded them? Or do you mean that they violated an arbitrary decree? A decree not based in philosophy, science, statistics, but on politics?
What @churdtzu said. :)
They have violated the right to life, liberty, and property of everyone who did not break the law. The Constitution of the United States of America is not based on politics. It is based on common law, derived from natural law, the best the authors of it could do. Natural law is based on natural philosophy, which is what physics used to be called. As far as I can tell, that amounts to more of a violation of the rights of We the People, than some arbitrary decree.
How can someone crossing a border violate someone else's right to life, liberty and property?
Does someone get murdered, imprisoned or do they loose their home when another human being takes a step and crosses and arbitrary line called a border?
Look it up. I'm not here to educate you, or I would be getting paid, and I have found far too little profit in arguing with ignorance.
How, specifically? Can you name one specific victim and tell me how they were injured?
They have violated the rights of all of the people who follow the law, ALL. I would recommend studying the philosophy, and science that you seem to think you already know. Start with the Trivium, not the neo-platonist retooling, and the Quadrivium, then branch out from there. I couldn't possibly provide you with a complete education in the comment section of a post. After the Trivium and Quadrivium, try the philosophy and history of western law, starting with Greece and Rome. Greek and Latin would be a great help. There is so much more, but this is decades worth of work to start. I've been at this and more, starting when I was 14, for 32 years and counting and I've barely scratched the surface.
I would love it if everyone could just have everything they desire, but the world does not work that way.
Okay. You didn't answer my question though. Perhaps you should think about it and try again.
I didn't answer your question because the fact that you asked it makes it obvious to me that you do not have a frame of reference to understand the answer. Go, become conversant in the context, and then you will not need to ask questions like this.
I've already stated the beginning of the context. There is nothing more I can do to increase your understanding without the basis as already laid out.
Jingoistic sloganeering is not my aim. There is depth of understanding to be had. It is now easier than ever to acquire it. All one needs do is have the faculties to comprehend it, and make the effort to assimilate it.
The inability of someone to craft a quip, which will contain volumes of knowledge, does not mean there is not an answer. In this case it means the answer is more than can be accomplished here. I do not know how much knowledge you lack, but if your comments are any guide, then I am wasting my time even as I type this.
I have remained as cordial as i am able for as long as I will. Learn what you need to learn to continue this conversation or be gone.
A wise man once said "If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself."
Geee, a quip that someone else made up, that must mean that you are smart.
Like you said. A total waste of time.
People can get residency or working visas.
Those people get background checks. Giving people background checks is a good idea. That's why Trump won. Your memes are weak.
The thing I don't get is this whole idea of "welfare" as it supposedly exists in the United States. Ask anyone who complains about it about what it actually is, just try it one day. What do they point out first? Is it the part where anyone who isn't working for any reason gets a check from the government to cover basic living expenses? That's what welfare actually is, and it doesn't exist in the United States. We do have these things called EBT cards (i.e. food stamps), but, if you've ever tried to get them, you know there are a whole bunch of strings attached, for some people there are work requirements, etc. They make it pretty easy for you to spend all of your time looking for basic services and working that out, leaving no time to actually better yourself. It's a shit cycle. We also have this thing called disability, where some people "fake" being disabled to access an actual welfare program in the United States. And again, it's not easy to get, and there are lots of strings attached. I can't imagine all these illegals are trying to get on disability... most would prefer to work. They get paid more for working, duh. So we've been hunting for welfare in the US for a second now and haven't quite found it. We've found things that look like welfare, that most illegals would avoid anyway, that mostly go to broke white people. Interesting. Any other programs we could call welfare? WIC? Gotta be a woman with a baby to get that. What about student loans? Ah, now we're on to something... guess what people do when they can't find a job, what welfare that does exist isn't for them, and they aren't brave enough to steal? They go to school, which puts them in debt. Instead of having real life welfare programs in the United States, we have fake welfare programs that get idiots all jealous and riled up, and instead of actually helping people we give them just enough rope to hang themselves with. It's a pretty awesome system. The rich get richer and go fuck yourself if not. FREEDOM BABY! GO AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!