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RE: Penny responds; response to; Gender Identity, Gender Expression, Gender Roles, and Sex: The circular logic that keep the public spinning in the midst of the transgender movement.
I would say that what makes Men & Women the most different is their BRAIN. Not The Penis Vs Vagina. Therefor no amount of surgery or hormones will ever make a man a woman or vice-versa.
I wouldn't go so far as to say all Trans women - are Really men, either. But no Trans-woman, can ever fully understand what it means to be a woman. So perhaps Trans-women are in a Third category & that is why they should be referred to a TRANS-Women and not REAL Women.
I also note you mention how you ran all this by your 8 year old niece.
BECAUSE of course an 8 year old child- is old enough to fully understand & grasp all the Sexual issues & the Many Deep Psychological Issues Involved with this whole TRANSGENDER ISSUE.
But... no. Hard no to this. I mean, philosophically, I believe it's fundamentally wrong to tell people how they should experience their gender and whether they should be in "another" gender category because of the physical characteristics of their genitalia at birth. Trans women ARE "real" women.
On your first point, even if you are going to make this about brain chemistry, there is a robust volume of scientific literature that shows that gender dysphoria is caused by a biological mismatch between brain chemistry and outer traits of biological sex at birth. In other words, trans women experience gender dysphoria prior to transitioning because their brain chemistry more closely resembles that of women that are born with female sexual organs. So if you want to make this about brain chemistry, then you are fighting against your own point.
As for the point of whether or not trans people experience life as "real women," how do you know that every woman you come across was born with female genitalia? How do random strangers on the street perceive them? In many cases, especially when women are far enough along in their transitioning process, they appear to have been born female in their superficial sexual traits. And women who are mid-transition who are still exhibiting outer traits of maleness are subjected to constant sexual harassment as well. If anything, I think that many trans women experience a more severe form of sexual harassment than cisgendered women.
Exaclty- It is very much influenced by BRAIN CHEMISTRY. And you yourself stated
The key words being more closely resembles that of women, however the male brain & the brain of trans women is still different than women who are BORN women.
I am very much well aware of the INFLUENCE of BRAIN CHEMISTRY & no it does not refute me point. It only brings into more questions about how BRAIN CHEMISTRY influences one's brain & more questions-
How HORMONES, Chemicals & pollutions & SEVERE Stresses of a Mother while the baby is in the Womb- might be contributing factors as to why some people born MEN- fell they are really women & vice versa. They call plastics & estrogenic chemicals- GENDER BENDER CHEMICALS - for a reason.
I'm not going to argue the point with you on whether or not a TRANSWomen can Ever Fully Know Or Experience What it is Like to Be A REAL WOMAN- because it no amount evidence to this point will probably ever convince you- yourself.
But I will say this- all of these questions are Very Relevant Indeed. And For People In Society to want to question all of this & find out the FACTORS that could be contributing are very important. It is not ALWAYS about hounding down the Trans-women- or Making Fun of Trans-Women. It is about this-
Trans-Women- start out in Life- as someone's child, someone's brother, someone;s loved one. Obviously to be a child, teen & adult & feel you are trapped in the wrong BODY- would cause a lot of difficulties & misery for that person's life. Then to further undergo major surgeries- also poses major hardship of those people. SURGERY ISN'T EASY ON THE HUMAN BODY!
So why on earth would anyone want to have fellow members of society- let alone their children, siblings, relatives, friends- suffer so much?
Likewise EVERY sane person knows that TEENAGERS sometimes go thru- Rebellion, feel like outcasts, try different things, and SOME JUST GO THRU PHASES- that they later- on their grow out of. To be so certain that NOT 1 SINGLE TEENAGER follows the TRANS-GENDER path- due to other reasons, or factors- than REALLY BE TRANSGENDER- is RIDICULOUS. Therefore- a Very Troubled TEEN who might be following the TRANSGENDER PATH- for the WRONG REASONS- then this whole thing needs to be dealt with with that teen & their Family. NOT HAVING OUTSIDE FORCES COME IN & TAKE OVER, IN THE NAME OF TRANSGENDER RIGHTS.
And YES- I know the above circumstances may be RARE- but there are ALREADY DOCUMENTED CASES OF THIS.
Last but not Least- Children are shaped & molded by those around them. What happens to a child- when at age 3 - mommy turns into DADDY or Visce Versa- and then furthermore- that CHILD is exposes nonstop- to mostly TRANSGENDER PEOPLE? Yah- Right- like that won't mess with a kids head.
Kids are in a Hypnagogic state of mind till age 6 or 7. Absolutely every they see & are exposed to- goes directly into their SUBCONSCIOUS Mind & lays down the BLUE Print or Program- they'll function off of for the rest of their life.
lol
You are sure hung up on the world "real" let me tell you that to me you are not a real woman or human because you lack the necessary component of one - empathy. Your whole communication style is there to slash and draw as much pain as possible from the safety of your screen. My assesment of you as human sludge dweller is just as valid or non valid as you categorisation of "real" there are factual arguments supporting my claim but is it really the whole picture?
While it is your right to hold your opinion, the way you chose to do it is cruel and you are making sure to take no prisoners! No one is arguing that trans people are biologically the sex they express yet it becomes your sole narrative. Fact is, that which you have admitted to knowing, that most trans women/men show brain chemistry opposite to that of their biological sex. Fact is being born in the wrong body is a birth defect and correcting this birth defect comes with a lifetime of dangers and sacrifices. Taking hormones has dangers, losing you ability to have biological children is a huge sacrifice. Trans people are well aware that they will never be biologically whole there is no need to plant neon signs around them and your version of the westboro baptist church in every stroke of your keyboard! No you choose these things because it makes you feel better about your poor self but to anyone with a "real" heart it just makes you vile beyond stomaching! Would you run after someone who is blind and make fun of their lack of vision? Would you make sure to point out someone born with no arms that they have no arms again and again? No you would not because the world would not let you get away with it ! But here by pure arbitrary luck you are biologically whole and it seems that you have little else to build your self esteem on; so you feel the need to bully and harass those who were not so lucky to have at least something to brag about.
Tell me in your world would anyone who is born intersex have to make sure to label themselves not "real" as well ? Or a person who had reconstructive surgery should they make sure to tell the world they had a defect that was fixed? Why in your opinion should a trans person wear a scarlet letter for all to see ? To make sure the partner knows they are not fertile? Does this mean that a biological female that is not fertile or has a hysterectomy should wear the T-shirt to make sure the world knows this ? And if not what is the difference here?
And now to the point of experience, I do not know about your education level but it seems to me that you might be lacking in that department. You are aware that no two humans experience their reality in the very same manner right? This is backed by psychology, sociology and science! You filter your world and your experiences through the unique lense of culture, family dynamics, individual biology and personal experiences. No two women experience this planet or life in the exact same way as you do and cultural norms vary so even the cultural expression of a"real" woman changes depending on location and who you are with. It is simple your freedom ends at another's skin and your right to express your views does not give you a freepass to be a douche. Sure you can categorise people into your boxes if it makes your poor self feel safer but you will also have to deal with people putting you in their own little ugly boxes ...