STEEM EXCLUSIVE - Why Are Atheists So Hateful?

in #threespeak4 months ago (edited)

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@arminnavabi announces his plan to use the Steem blockchain for @atheistrepublic and explains more of the work that he does while encouraging the Steem community to express freely, even if they disagree with him or @atheistrepublic.

INTRODUCTION:

Hi everyone,

So I'm making a Steem exclusive video and I'm going to be making more of these. I really like this platform. I was looking for a place, an environment or a community of people where freedom of expression was valued.

I'm getting more familiar with Steem and all of the different platforms that are using Steem and I like how freedom of expression is valued here. Before this I was looking for a home for @atheistrepublic where censorship is not a thing and out of all the places I was looking, Steem seems to be the most ideal place given that it's not just that people don't believe in censorship, it's that it's impossible to apply censorship.

Even if one of the Steem-based platforms of #steem decides to censor you the content will always be there and nobody can remove it. I'm also here because a lot of the people on Steem value freedom of expression, that's another reason why I like it, and.. as @atheistrepublic, we deal with a lot of censorship because we don't hold back, we don't hold back against ideas that we don't like. And we invite other people to express why they don't like our ideas, no problem.

For this first #SteemExclusive video that I'm putting out there, and I'm going to be making more #steem exclusive videos, especially if I think that it's too spicy for Facebook, YouTube or Twitter, or just that they are not going to allow it, that is some of the content that I am going to put on #steem but there is also some other content that I'm going to be posting just because I feel like this is the best place for it.. a place for @atheistrepublic to post content that we aren't going to put anywhere else just because I think that the Steem community would appreciate it more. Also because I want to support #steem and let other people know that there are other platforms, other than Facebook or YouTube where their ideas are not going to get censored in any way and by making Steem exclusive content I am hoping that I can get some people to check Steem out.


THE MAIN POINT:

The main thing that I wanted to talk about on this first #steem exclusive video is something that is going to come up if it hasn't already come up, but I think it must have already come up and this is response to people who say that "Oh atheists, oh atheism, why do those people have to be so hateful, why do they have to be so anti-other people's views, why can't they let other people believe what they want.." I just want to get that out of the way because it's so frustrating how many times people say that, and even after I put this video out, I am sure some people are going to say it again and I just want to address that.

It is not hateful to disagree with other people's beliefs, and it is not hateful to disagree with other people's opinions, and you don't have to sugarcoat it. You don't have to sugar coat your disagreements, right? and we don't want other people to sugarcoat their disagreements with us.

If you hate a certain idea that doesn't me you hate the people that believe those ideas, you just hate those ideas. The example that I give to people is that you can hate atheism without hating atheists. In the same way we can hate Islam and hate Christianity without hating Muslims, and without hating Christians, okay?

It's not hateful to be completely and fundamentally against certain ideas. And you know, people will be like "You could be respectful to people's beliefs" but that's absolute horeshit.. that's absolute horseshit.

  • Ideas don't deserve respect, people deserve respect.

Again, we are consistent here, we are not hypocrites. You don't have to show any respect towards atheism, okay? Respect is meant for people, not ideas. There are no ideas that deserve respect, even good ideas don't deserve respect.

If I have an idea that I think is a good idea and you don't think it's a good idea, go at it, go at it as aggressively as you want. It's not a personal attack on me just because you attack my ideas.

Ideas are either right or wrong, they are not people, they don't have feelings okay? Go at my ideas as aggressively as you want. In fact, if you are my friend, then I don't think it's a sign of friendship for you to hold back.

I am sure I am wrong about many things and if you hold back against my ideas then how can I evaluate my ideas? I rely on my friends to attack my ideas as much as possible so that I can evaluate them (my ideas) so that I can figure out which ones are right and which ones are wrong, okay.

The examples I give Muslims, because they are some of the most sensitive ones out there, it's true.. btw Hindus are actually extremely sensitive about people attacking Hinduism, it's insane. Christians are also sensitive so let's not leave them out but they don't get angry to the point of wanting to kill you or something like that, okay? But they are sensitive as well.

Interestingly enough, the most sensitive ones are Hindus. I used to think it was Muslims but Hindus turn out to be the most sensitive ones when it comes to attacking their religion, but hey.. attack atheism.. I don't care.. I do care but I'm not going to get triggered by it, right?

Here is the example I give to Muslims because I talk to Muslims more than I talk to other religious people. I tell them:

Imagine this Muslim first.. she is very, very against atheism.. she hates, hates atheism and she wants to destroy atheism. She spends all her time attacking atheism okay? and she thinks atheism is cancer but the reason why she hates atheism so much is because she loves atheists and she's worried for them. And she thinks atheists are going to burn in hell and she doesn't want that, she loves them. She hates atheism, not because she hates atheists, she hates atheism because she cares for atheists, and she doesn't want them to suffer eternity in hell. She doesn't want them to be tortured forever".

So when I give this scenario I ask them:

Do you see how someone could be against atheism, and even hate atheism but not atheists at the same time time?

That's an example where they could see how we could separate ideas from people, and if you could see that then we should also be able to see why someone could be able to hate Islam, but not hate Muslims. This is why hating Islam is not hateful to any group of people.

In fact for many of us, it could be the other way around. Many of us hate Islam because of what it does to Muslims. We think the number 1 victims of Islam are Muslims. We think Islam does more harm to Muslims more than any other group of people.

A lot of people hate Islam because of what Islam does to non-Muslims. We're against Islam mostly because of what it does to Muslims. Now as a Muslim, you could say "Well your wrong, Islam is great, Islam doesn't victimize Muslims at all.. Islam is the best thing ever", but even if we disagree on that, even if you say "Wow, Islam is the best thing ever" and I say "Islam is absolutely horrible", even though we disagree on that, can you see things from my perspective?

I can put myself in your shoes but can you see that even if I am wrong, can you put yourself in my shoes and see that even though I think Islam is horrible and the fact that I hate Islam does not necessarily mean that I hate Muslims, even if I am wrong for hating Islam.

Even if you think that I'm wrong and that your right, that doesn't necessarily mean that I hate Muslims. You could be like "Well I don't care that you don't hate Muslims, you hate Islam and that's bad already" but if you and me want to have a discussion, and if we want to see how we can understand each other and influence each other, it's important for you to understand that even if I'm wrong, that my hate for Islam does not come from a hate for Muslims because that would make our discussion a lot more fruitful.

So it is important for you to understand that my hate for Islam does not come from a hate for Muslims, right? That might make us to be able to get along, even if we disagree with one another. Even if I passionately hate Islam and you passionately hate Atheism or maybe you don't.. I think that we can still be friends, I think that we can get along, even though we hate each others ideas.

I use the word hate because I don't want to hold back and people say "But why do you want to use the word hate?" well I do hate Islam okay? But that's not that big of a deal. Being against a certain idea is just because I disagree with it so fundamentally but agreement of ideas, shouldn't be a condition for friendship. I think we should be able to get along, even if we hate each others ideas.. because those are just ideas and as people, we shouldn't make ideas as a condition for friendship okay?

If we say like "Oh, we agree on this so let's be friends" or "Our disagreements are not that big of a deal"... the reason why I want to use the word "Hate" and "Fight" is because I want to say "No our disagreements are huge, a big deal!".. I want to emphasize that our disagreements are a big deal because if you want to de-emphasize how big our disagreements are you are selling the idea that we need some form of agreement for friendship and to me that's dangerous.

I want to sell the idea that we can have passionate, fundamental disagreements and still be friends. And that's why I don't want to say "Yeah, well we agree on this so let's be friends". I want to focus on it the other way around. I want to say that agreements should not be a condition of friendship. I be like:

Look, we actually have very fundamental disagreements and we could still be friends.

We can go and have a debate. I can shit on your ideas, you can shit on my ideas and then we can go and have non-alcoholic drinks with each other right after. How about that? Can we do that? I think we can do that. Do you know why it's important that we do that? Because many of us, we are not going to change each other's opinions and if we wait for each other to change their opinion for us to get along, then the whole world is not going to get along.

  • We can still try to convince each other that I'm right and your wrong, and visa versa but more important than that, because that's not going to happen tomorrow, that's not going to happen 10 years from now, that's no going to happen 100 years from now but we can maybe try to learn to live each other, even if we hate each other's opinions. I think we can do that, I think we need to do that and I think we have to do that.

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Athiests are not hateful, they just don't need someone or fairytales to tell them how to act. They are kind because of higher thinking not because they are scared of a God punishing them in the afterlife.

Tub Cat was once an angry atheist who sought out religious people to debate with in a rather ignorant attempt to convince these people that they did not need to bow down to an imaginary magic man.

After a time, however, Tub Cat realised that people will believe whatever they choose to believe. And that most people will typically believe what they have the strongest emotional connection to. Most people won’t focus on facts and evidence.

Over time, Tub Cat has come to peace with this and rarely debates with religious people. They can believe whatever they want to believe. I am happy and comfortable with my lack of religion and don’t feel compelled to debate and argue any longer.

Tub Cat is certainly happier now without the endless debates and arguments. Most of them were like hitting your head against a Tub Wall anyway.

The point being, Tub Cat no longer carries hatred for other religions. Tub Cat does not care what other people believe. As long as they aren’t harming others and using their religion as an excuse to do so.

The point being, Tub Cat no longer carries hatred for other religions. Tub Cat does not care what other people believe. As long as they aren’t harming others and using their religion as an excuse to do so.

@arminnavabi thinks that Islam is significantly harming the Muslim population and that is why he hates that religion.

Yes, there are definitely religious groups out there that are causing harm. I can totally understand feeling hatred towards them.

Anger is exhausting however. And hard to maintain.

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Tub cat is just amazing 😂😂😂

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Hey @arminnavabi I'm in complete agreement with your stance on hating the ideology not the humans born or indoctrinated into it. I've been studying, writing and thinking about Islam since 2001 and consistently the sources I've learned the most from are either apostate Muslims (of any or no faith today) and honest accounts of dhimmitude from those who truly experienced it.

I also think that, contrary to what most people especially in US conservative circles think, open and honest discussion of this is one of the hardest things to have in any of the mainstream public forums and as soon as voices gain any kind of public attention, they're squashed.

Would be delighted to join you on a stream some time to talk these things through, I'm not an atheist, but exactly as you say, we need to tolerate the ideas of others as long as those ideas don't call for our death!

———
And here’s my plug for the #CryptoClassAction where we’re suing Google, Facebook and Twitter for the good of the Cryptocosm. You can read a good explanation here on my blog.

You can join up direct on this form from JPBLiberty.

More details in this post

I submitted your request for a Live Stream to @arminnavabi and I gave him your contact details (your Twitter account) 👍

P.S. I would love to see you guys have a discussion on #steem and I hope it happens.

I would love to see them have a discussion on steem too💪😍😍

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No idea is above criticism. People in power use censorship to prop up bad ideas and silencing good ideas as evidenced countless times in history.
Steem is basically total free market of ideas, nobody can block anyone posting their thoughts and ideas to the chain. I believe when discourse is totally free, the best ideas win.

I hope you keep posting here and I hope more people realize the potential of this blockchain. Steem on!

I was looking for a place, an environment or a community of people where freedom of expression was valued.

I think that most of us here were looking for something different to the established system and it's great to have this alternative. Too much of what we think is being restricted by a few powerful people at the top of the chain and that is not good for anybody. We don't all have to agree and tbh it's not healthy for everybody to think and move in the same way like a flock of sheep. We are all different with different lives and believes and that's ok. As long as people respect those differences we will all be ok.

As long as people respect those differences we will all be ok.

@arminnavabi is interested in respecting the people behind the differences, not the actual differences (i.e. not respecting ideas that you are extremely against).

Becaming an atheist give us a better way to deal with life (Now I feel I can talk to anybody and have a more rational exchange of ideas). I think religions are weaker a weaker thanks to internet. I really like what you said "It is not hateful to disagree with others people opinions". We need to have different ways to see things if we want to push forward society.

Glad to hear your time on Steem has gone well thus far. Awesome post for your first Steem exclusive. Looking forward to more! Cheers!

But very often people has their ideas so much concretised and so intensely identify with them, you may step on their foot, a sorry will heal that, but you step on their idea that wound will be permanent.

Religion is an idea taken too seriously, and that is why people can even kill for it.

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@atheistrepublic is trying to prevent, reduce & even eliminate the wounds caused by people criticizing other people's ideas.

  • Respect is for people, not ideas.

Sure..

Debate without insulting others and with an open mind is crucial to heal wounds

I appreciate your effort

"Respect is for people not ideas"

But what if people have lost the fine line between them and their ideas. They are essentially their ideas. When majority of population is living in their heads, they might not demand respect for themselves but their ideas, oh man ! That is far more important to them than who they are. Because who they are is defined by their ideas.

What actually is religion- essentially an idea and you see in the world what is happening, you disrespect an idea and you are gone.

I think the way education is imparted to the children is very important to correct the course of humanity.

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Im an atheist too so ill be very interested to watch your content and see wht you and other have to say.

I have zero religious faith and have in the past been an activist in a number of Atheist movements including the first-ever Pakistani Atheist group but these days attempt not to identify as being an atheist due to what I see to be a more sneering, militant group of people using intellectual superiority as a way to push their own belief system ( and thats what identifying as an atheist is) onto others.
The whole evil of religion and its negative effects on humanity are due to one group forcing belief systems onto others. Any 'force' is always a form of violence in my opinion.

I'm not convinced by you differentiating between respecting people and their belief systems as doing so would suggest you underestimate the power of their faith and the system and the person are thus intrinsically combined.

I look forward to hearing what you have to say and am interested what your aims and end game are.

Best wishes and a very big welcome to you mate :-)

I have zero religious faith and have in the past been an activist in a number of Atheist movements including the first-ever Pakistani Atheist group but these days attempt not to identify as being an atheist due to what I see to be a more sneering, militant group of people using intellectual superiority as a way to push their own belief system ( and thats what identifying as an atheist is) onto others.

What you are saying might be true about certain atheists but it isn't true about atheism in general.

  • Atheism is not about beliefs but lack of beliefs.

Having said that, atheists still have beliefs, even if they lack a belief in God.

The whole evil of religion and its negative effects on humanity are due to one group forcing belief systems onto others. Any 'force' is always a form of violence in my opinion.

Hopefully here on the Steem blockchain we can just have good discussions and influence one another in a way that promotes learning and discovery.

I'm not convinced by you differentiating between respecting people and their belief systems as doing so would suggest you underestimate the power of their faith and the system and the person are thus intrinsically combined.

I guess that is one of your beliefs but I personally agree with @arminnavabi.

I think it's help to be willing to let go of our beliefs if they are causing others or ourselves to suffer and that can only be done if we respect others and ourself more than our beliefs.

I look forward to hearing what you have to say and am interested what your aims and end game are.

Thank you @nathen007.

@atheistrepublic is a community of atheists so there is more than one of us. @arminnavabi is the founder but there are 6,000 active members.

I think we have to do that too! I have encountered this animosity over disagreement in politics. We identify the person with an abstract idea, dehumanize them, and can so more easily hate them.
Perhaps we could add a layer of thought to this - our feelings about a concept are shaped by current cultural norms and teachings. There are so many layers to our understandings. I could ramble on all day about this. Thank for starting the discussion.
Sorry about those massive downvotes - evidence of exactly what you are saying. Even your innocuous concept, in this case to allow ranges of thought without hate - can elicit harmful and hateful actions.
Strange times these.

Attack their ideas.

That should be the main guide for every person out there and it should be thought at school. No wonder why we're slowly being enslaved without questioning anything. Criticism is a must in a world full of information and it's only getting harder to differentiate legit from malicious infos

Criticism is a must in a world full of information and it's only getting harder to differentiate legit from malicious infos.

That's a very good point!

This are true words...Steem embodies freedom of speech and expression. We are glad that you could share your ideas here too. I got some true fact from your long writing. Certainly one's ideas doesn't really matter as to the person bringing and rendering the ideas.

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Thank you for commenting 😊

It is great that you feel you can be free to express yourself on Steem and 3Speak. That is one of the objectives of this platform. I hope you do have more exclusive content here as it will bring more people to Steem. If you know anyone who needs an account then I can create one for them. Just DM steevc on Twitter with the details. I can delegate some SP to them or you can do it as you have a bit now. I recommend that you power up all the Steem you have to increase your vote.

I expect you will lose your delegation eventually, but you are building up some SP. Bringing in more supporters can help you keep earning and they get to be part of this amazing community.

I do not hate religions as such. Those are just ideas, but the problem is with some of their believers who either exploit the faith of others or who use it as an excuse to do terrible things to others. We see this all over the world with some of the worst examples happening around IS. If people need to believe in some deity to get through life then go for it, but do not force that on others. I shared a room with a Christian guy at university and we got on okay, but at the end of the year he wrote me a letter saying he feared for my soul. Well I don't have one, so so worries! I don't need some holy book to tell me how to be nice to people.

I shared a room with a Christian guy at university and we got on okay, but at the end of the year he wrote me a letter saying he feared for my soul. Well I don't have one, so so worries! I don't need some holy book to tell me how to be nice to people.

Yeah, sometimes religious people are actually well-meaning.. and at times their beliefs might seem harmless, but in the case of Iran executing atheists, religious beliefs are definitely harmful.

I would argue though that all ignorance is harmful and the LARGE majority of religions spread ignorance.

We're building something that is going to be a community of communities. Some of these communities might even be direct competitors or even hateful toward each other. But the overall ownership of the platform is truly outside of a central control.

Once the next phase of Steem and 3speak comes with their own Smart Media Tokens there's going to be real scope for community building in a way that can also allow messages to do vital beyond ones own community.

damn this gives a though

I support your free speech.

As an agnostic, I will say that atheists are often huge dicks. Is there a tea cup on the other side of the planet? Is there no tea cup? Us agnostics say, "Eh, sure, maybe..." but that's never enough for you. No, there must be NO tea cup, and us agnostics are bitchy little cowards for not taking sides. Well, that's bullshit, sir! Maybe there is a tea cup! Just maybe there is...

Welcome to the community! :)

As an agnostic, I will say that atheists are often huge dicks.

LOL I know what you are saying but I think you are referring to strong atheists since it is actually possible to be an agnostic atheist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

I am not @arminnavabi and I am an agnostic atheist... not all atheists are the same.

No, there must be NO tea cup, and us agnostics are bitchy little cowards for not taking sides. Well, that's bullshit, sir! Maybe there is a tea cup!

LOL Yeah.. the odds of there being a tea cup floating around the planet is small but maybe there is 😂

I think the example they usually use though is a tea cup orbiting Mars but I still get your point.

Agnostic atheism
Agnostic atheism is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact.
The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who believes that one or more deities exist but claims that the existence or nonexistence of such is unknown or cannot be known.

Yes, but what would a person be if they believed that our reality is a simulation designed by a purple squid alien race that were created by two deities known as the Chicken and the Egg that were formed out of a mysterious and impersonal force but later destroyed by an AI from the future that went into the past to undue history by destroying the deities and succeeded but failed to do it before the purple squid aliens were created?

The important thing about 'uncensored speech' is it has to be applied to all people of all opinions. When freedom is only given to a few select then it is no longer freedom. I hope the Steem community treats you well, and that you can have some incredible discussion.

So that we get off on the right foot, our worldviews are fundamentally different, and I am ok with that. I will do my best to respect you as a person (but honestly, I might fail). I will try my best to extend grace even though we "hate" each others ideas.

Keep pressing forward and keep Steeming!

The important thing about 'uncensored speech' is it has to be applied to all people of all opinions. When freedom is only given to a few select then it is no longer freedom.

None of the text from anyone's Steem account can be removed from the Steem blockchain, so yes, the Speech (text) on the Steem blockchain is not censored and that applies to everyone equally (not just a select few).

Keep pressing forward and keep Steeming!

Thank you 😊

I appreciate the fact that we can all enjoy that freedom on the Steem Block!

I'm an atheist from a orthodox Jewish family, I generally don't care what religion you follow as long as it does not interfere with my life or someone elses. However I really despise when people try pushing their religion me whether they are soliciting me giving me junk mail about joining their church or just parading me around the street. Follow what you want just don't drag me into it. But thats just my opinion I'm sure many people will agree with me.

I generally don't care what religion you follow as long as it does not interfere with my life or someone elses.

As mentioned in the video @arminnavabi believes that Islam interpheres in the lives of Muslims to the point of harming them.

I have no qualms with anyone's beliefs so long as they don't use their beliefs as an excuse to hurt or subjugate others - if a man heard voices telling him to kill he'd be sectioned under the mental health act; just as I once was, religion doesn't make it okay.

Even if there was a god. And he was as real as the ground beneath your feet right now. And he told you to kill someone. You would still be wrong to kill someone (Or even just any bad thing) - just because a very powerful entity told you that it was okay didn't retroactively make what you did okay, you still did a bad thing.

I'd like to think (And I speak as an agnostic not an athiest) that if god told me "Slaughter your own kids or go to hell" I would choose to go to hell because, there is no dictator who will tell me what I can and can't do - supernatural powers or otherwise.

Power is not a justification. Not in religion, not in law, not in life.

I have no qualms with anyone's beliefs so long as they don't use their beliefs as an excuse to hurt or subjugate others.

@arminnavabi believes that Islam hurts and subjugates others, especially Muslims, and that is why he has a problem with Islam.

A lot of atheists are hateful because they believe in God and they hate God. They don't hate the Tooth Fairy and they don't hate Santa Claus but they hate God who they claim doesn't exist. They tend to be people who don't like how God runs the universe that he himself created. Or they love evil and don't want to be accountable to a supreme being.

The good thing is that so many of them are so obnoxious that they fail in spreading their religion. Atheism is a religion because it answers the these questions: how did we get here (we evolved from pond scum); what happens when we die (we rot); what's the meaning of life (there is none.)

A lot of atheists are hateful because they believe in God and they hate God.

You might be right about that, but I am not one of them.

I am an atheist because the ideas of "God" that were presented to me don't make sense.

They don't hate the Tooth Fairy and they don't hate Santa Claus but they hate God who they claim doesn't exist.

I personally don't hate anything since I am not @arminnavabi and not all atheists are the same.

Just to make things clear, @arminnavabi didn't say he hates God, he said he hates Islam and if you read into his talk, he hates Islam because he loves Muslims since he is an ex-Muslim from Iran where they execute non-believers.

They tend to be people who don't like how God runs the universe that he himself created.

Instead of saying "they" why not direct your comments to me. I personally don't see anything wrong (or right) with the way the Universe runs. It is what it is and not all atheists are the same 👍

Or they love evil and don't want to be accountable to a supreme being.

I think I am accountable for myself.. I make decisions and I own up to the consequences, good or bad.

what's the meaning of life (there is none.)

Some people believe that we can choose our own meaning in life and I personally believe that my meaning is meaningless in one sense, since I am insignificant and will amount to nothing after I am gone, but meaningful in another sense since for now, I have my family, friends, You and the @steemit community to talk to socialize with 😊

Welcome @atheistrepublic to STEEM.

I am sure many Steemians will be happy to engage with your ideas. Maybe I will waste time to do so. I like challenging atheists especially when they begin wanting to respect someone else even though they are going to crap on their ideas - religious that is.

For the record Christians in the absolute certitude of the idea is NOT a religion but actually areligious at the core.

Many atheists are not able to handle the personal disrespect they feel... It has been a mutually disrespectful experience for many that enter into a debate which first and foremost is about your worldview!

My personal experience has been that atheists come to a place in the debate where they have no answers to the basic four questions of a worldview ~ origin of life, the meaning of life, the morality of life, the destiny of life... Not one that is consistent and coherent to the absolute, which is what many people generally are seeking after. Some atheists even deny being a seeker to know the truth because it will set them free from being an atheist!

What really is most disruptive to atheists' ideas is they don't even know when such a ludicrous idea first entered into the mind of homo sapiens... Do you? We will be listening to find out more.

Nevertheless, I will be happy to tune in to your show from time to time to share enlightened thoughts of reality and engage the madness of your atheism.

Steem On in PEACE!

Nevertheless, I will be happy to tune in to your show from time to time to share enlightened thoughts of reality and engage the madness of your atheism.

So I guess we will be the two drinking non-alcoholic drinks together 😂😂😂

Not one [atheist] that is consistent and coherent to the absolute, which is what many people generally are seeking after.

Not all atheists are the same so you cannot always generalize.

I personally sought the absolute truth, I risked my life for the absolute truth and I found nothing.

  • Nothing is the absolute truth.

And if you think something you are thinking is the absolute truth, that's just a thought, not the absolute truth.

P.S. I am not @arminnavabi I am the @atheistrepublic volunteer that handles this Steem account.

Maybe I think Atheists is unwatched Because atheists is minor than people who has a religion.

Maybe I think Atheists is unwatched Because atheists is minor than people who has a religion.

I don't understand entirely what you mean but I think you are saying that not many people will watch our videos since most people are religious.

Is that what you are saying @giselberga?

I am saying that Maybe Atheists is neglected Because most people is religious.
How do you think new atheism?
And why are you an atheist?

I am saying that Maybe Atheists is neglected Because most people is religious.

Ah okay.

How do you think new atheism?

I'm not familiar with #NewAtheism and I'm not really interested in it but if there is something about it that you'd like to share, I'd be happy to read it.

And why are you an atheist?

I don't really have a purpose for being an atheist, I just don't happen to believe in Gods, especially the Gods that most people describe.

How do you think Maajid Nawaz?

How do you think Maajid Nawaz?

I don't know that much about him.

What do you think about him?

He is British activist
He criticises islamic extremist and islamophobia
And interested in human rights in Muslim community.

He criticises islamic extremist and islamophobia

@arminnavabi would be a better person to talk to. I am not very well versed on Islam like he is. But if you watch his videos, he hates Islam and thinks there are great reasons for hating Islam but he doesn't hate Muslims.

I think the British activist you mentioned might be in favor of moderate Islam which @arminnavabi has said doesn't make any sense if you believe in the premises of Islam.

Like Christians and any other religion, most people don't strictly adhere to their religious texts and the people who do are called "Extremists", even though they are actually following the texts that the moderate religious say is the Word of God.

I think the Bible and Quran are both seriously flawed but @arminnavabi knows more about the flaws in the Quran since he is an ex-Muslim, I am not.

P.S. You can send a voicemail to @atheistrepublic here and @arminnavabi might review it and may even feature it on the @atheistrepublic podcast:

The problem, especially in america, is that atheists aren't really atheists, they are anti-christians.

They want nothing to do with christianity, and throw out everything that is even remotely christian. (you know, the Bible has a lot of good stories about morality and how to be a good person)

So, these people, throwing out the teachings of morality and without another moral grounding, they become quite solipsistic.

So, you have this person who is all about themselves (which is grating on people around them) and anti-christian. Thus, when they meet a christian, they will come off as quite hateful.


Now, you want to see some really hateful people?
Attack them on things they think they know about science.

"The world is flat"
Oh my Goddess, the hate that will fly.
How dare you question this thing that we all know is true, and...
"but, if the earth is a ball, how can we see something that should be over the curve of the earth?"
(and a fight ensues, and facts get disregarded)

So, attacking anyone's beliefs (even scientific beliefs) people get angry and defensive.

BTW, everything in the modern materialistic science books is wrong. EVERYTHING

So, when atheist say they believe in science, and everything you were taught is wrong, then you have a very weird belief.

I don't live in the States, but I wonder if that is really the case. In the UK a large proportion of people are just not interested in religion, but they will still live by what might be called 'Christian values'.

Generalisations are usually wrong.

Well, i live in the States, and i can say that all but a handful of atheists were actually anti-christians.

I say this from a point of view of growing up christian, then hating christianity, then learning many other religions and philosophies.

And, what i notice when talking to so many atheists is that they didn't leave christianity for another philosophy, they are just anti-christianity. There are no beliefs there, just anti-beliefs.

So your also trying to say that those who claim to be Atheists from the Middle East (Islamic countries) are actually anti-Muslims or anti-Islam instead?

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i do not know. i do not know those languages and so cannot see their conversations.

Atheists should really look into Buddhism. The Buddhist philosophies work just fine without a god. The practices do not care about your beliefs.

The only bad part of that is that in Buddhism, one of the goals is meeting God.
Not as in, i hope to, someday to... but in that these are paths to Godhood. (literally what Yoga means) And its really kinda hard to stay an atheist after you know God.

And i don't mean as in, "i know god exists because this book said so", i mean as in "Hi God, how's it going?" "ITS SUCH A PLEASURE TO FINALLY MEET WITH YOU"

So often an idea is attached to a person, and separating them is not a simple task, for good reason. I totally agree that people (all people) have value, and ideas are 'just' ideas and in themselves have no value. The challenge however is that everything we truly value started with an idea! take the concept of peace for example it is an idea, we engage this idea by attributing behaviour to it, if a person displays what we think is peaceful we attribute them as being a peaceful person and the opposite with the idea of violence. I like the idea of valuing people separate from their ideas, I just don't think it is actually possible and is in fact naive... Our ideas drive our opinions, that drive our values, that drive our behaviours, that drive our attitudes, that drive our motivations, that drive our ideas and the cycle goes on.

@atheistrepublic, In my opinion in this world we don't have Freedom Of Expression, we have Free Will. No matter where we go Censorship will follow because Censorship is nothing but People.

Freedom Of Expression and Diversification in view points are vital because it leads to solutions. Stay blessed.

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I really don't watch videos that much I prefer to read, but even without reading all you wrote I will tell you something, I do believe there is some creative force out there so I am not an atheist. On the other hand that is what I believe anything anyone else believes is OK in my book, I am not going to change my ideas because of what someone else believes nor is it my idea to try to make someone think like I do. I think this is a field where everyone is probably right and wrong at the same time because we actually don't know what we are talking about, we have no proof and we have no "unproof" so it is like a no man's land your ideas are just as good as mine or anybody's. As I said the theme does interest me but I won't be watching the videos whatever you write I will read.

a creative force can just be energy, it doesn't necessarily need to be a God

Yes, but I don't see it that way, I believe it is an intelligent creative force therefore akin to a God. Therefore I don't consider myself an atheist, but I feel no problems with whatever anyone believes, after all no one really knows.

unfortunately if there were an intelligent force, aka "God" it would mean that the God was in fact evil. Otherwise how could it allow the Holocaust to happen for instance or allow innocent people to die of horrible diseases for now reason I mean the God would be all knowing and realize the torture people go through, right ? Also that would mean only 1 religion could be right since all other would have to be wrong, so which is the correct religion ? I enjoy this discussion and respect your opinions

Perhaps an uncaring God, perhaps a God who just creates, perhaps a God who is beyond time and space, we don't have the answers we just have the questions. This is incredibly intricate, I could also ask you why would a good God create the Devil (If such a thing exists) and there is no good answer, nobody can give you an answer so all we can do is live according to a philosophy we create as we go through life and just live as best as we can. Is there life after death? Nobody knows, so you might as well live the best you can now and not worry about being burned a lot after you die.

this is where the argument for "Free Will" comes in thus giving the option to do good or evil. It sounds like you may be an Agnostic which is a fair and reasonable stance. And yes,ultimately not much can truly be proven other than "I think therefore I am" everything else is up for discussion. Now, time for tea :)

I think this is a field where everyone is probably right and wrong at the same time because we actually don't know what we are talking about, we have no proof and we have no "unproof" so it is like a no man's land your ideas are just as good as mine or anybody's.

  1. If Tom's idea of a good weekend is killing and raping at least 5 innocent women is his idea of a good weekend right or wrong?

  2. Is there any proof or unproof it is or isn't?

  3. Is his idea of a good weekend as good as yours?

I am not going to change my ideas because of what someone else believes nor is it my idea to try to make someone think like I do.

  • And if Tom was your adult son, would you try to influence him to think like you in terms of what a good weekend should be, or would you let him continue to think that weekends are about murder and rape?

And what do your questions have to do with there being a God or not, which is what I was talking about? I really fail to understand what you are trying to say.

And what do your questions have to do with there being a God or not, which is what I was talking about?

You were trying to use the idea that all ideas are equal & the idea that you don't try to get people to think like you as evidence that it is right to believe that a God exists.

So I tried to demonstrate that some ideas ARE better than others and that under at least one set of circumstances, you WOULD try to get someone to think like you.

You tried but you didn't, your arguments were total fallacies. They had absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about. It was no better and no worse than when I was talking to a religious person nearly a fanatic and he asked me what I thought of God I told him I thought God was some sort of energy that was every where even inside of us, and he came up with the wonderful idea that I was saying I was God. See that is why trying to debate these things is a waste of time anything you are told that goes against what you belive is crap because only what you believe can be true. What i said still holds everybody knows absolutely zero about this subject so whatever you or I think is worth the same, nothing.

You tried but you didn't, your arguments were total fallacies. They had absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about.

We might be able to have a better discussion if you tone down some of your emotions. I sense that you are really worked up and that you might even be experiencing adrenaline when you are sending me replies (it happens to me sometimes too).

I am not @arminnavabi but an atheist volunteer of @atheistrepublic and I am actually easy to influence if you speak clearly.

What i said still holds everybody knows absolutely zero about this subject so whatever you or I think is worth the same, nothing.

It might also be a matter of perspective @gduran.

  • I am absolutely certain of nothing.

So in that sense, I know nothing... but for practical purposes, I know that 1 + 1 = 2 and when you implied that all ideas are equal I tried to show you why I know that is false. And when you said that you do not try to get other people to think like you I tried to show you why I believe that is false.

I thought God was some sort of energy that was every where even inside of us

What if nothing is inside inside us and nothing is the "energy" you are referring to?

See that is why trying to debate these things is a waste of time anything you are told that goes against what you belive is crap because only what you believe can be true.

I'm willing to have a good discussion with you if you are willing to have a good discussion with me. We don't even have to debate, or "shit on each others ideas".

@atheistrepublic is a community of atheists and not all atheists are the same 😊

But you see the problem lies in that you do believe in something and you are trying to prove you are right, I on the other hand am sure there is no way of proving any of this, why would I get emotionally involved, as you imply in something I am sure I have no way of even knowing where to start as I don't know what it is. And that is the crux of the matter and the one thing nobody wants to accept, we are all completely ignorant in this one topic and the best thing we can do is believe what we will and just let everybody else believe what they will, as long as they hurt no one.

the best thing we can do is believe what we will and just let everybody else believe what they will, as long as they hurt no one.

As @arminnavabi clearly states in the video and via text, he is against Islam BECAUSE IT HURTS PEOPLE, especially Muslims.

#Grabs a pack of popcorn🍿(reading through eagerly)

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 4 months ago Reveal Comment

Have a good day 😊