There Is Nothing Wrong With Suicide
I understand that this might be a controversial subject for some people. I would advise anyone who is emotional about this to not read any further.
Life can be a fascinating experience for some and extremely awful for others. One can find the beauty in all things and enjoy them through good times and bad. Others that do not share the same point of view can't go into this mind trip. I am calling it mind trip because objectively life sucks.
Most people on this planet have no water, food or shelter on a daily basis. They never did if you are quick to accuse "capitalism" or some other political ideology. This is how life rolls. This is how social darwinism works for all species. Some perish for some others to advance. This is how our species reached this point in history.
For many reading this, life is pretty good. You are most likely young with no illness or major distress and most likely grew in a family that was ready to supply you with the basics even if you had your ups and downs. For some others though life is pain day in and day out. Whether it is physical pain or emotional is irrelevant.
One can look at a pile of shit and be fascinated by the extravagant mechanism of the human system that takes food and processes it down to its basic nutrients. Feces exits from another hole in the body as a new substance! There are essentially other forms of life that can themselves give life to other forms of life! Fascinating right? Well, for some it is still shit.
I wrote in the past that "Empathy Is Bullshit" for the very reason that one cannot possibly get in the shoes of another person. We share different experiences, different physiologies and different timelines that cannot be possibly be shared due to basic physical laws.
We think we can understand others but this is only an illusion. Most of the time, we cannot even understand our own actions, our own thoughts and processes because they have become part of ourselves. In the same way, a mirror cannot look into itself and another mirror will only force it into one single perspective. This is also why I believe psychology is nonsensical and borderline scammy. From one perspective, every single human on earth has issues. The only thing missing is a proper rhetoric.
Some say that suicide is an egotistical act, one that insults the living. Traditionally religions opposed to it because they theorized that life is sacred and that only the creator had a say. What was offensive was the power of a human being to take their own life, an act that was only allowed from the divine. Thing is, as we grew intellectually as a species we realized that the religions we came up with are only but our stories, our own narratives to explain our own shortcomings. We are Gods, we always were but afraid to admit it. We created the divine to explain the part of ourselves that was out of reach. We invented souls to fill this pack of bones and flesh with something important.
Life is nothing more that electrical signals with some chemical reactions. This is all we know so far and this is what every piece of experiment shows. We cannot be sad about 1850's because we weren't around back then. We will not be sad, or afraid or or or about 2100's because none of us is going to be around. Some will die from accidents, others from disease, others will take their own life.
And there is nothing wrong with that. It causes pain to the ones around the person but rest assured that a person takes their own life to feel relief. Accepting the act of suicide for what it is — control of an individual's own body — is what matters at the end. The rest of us that keep going don't matter. Our feelings with that person don't matter. Trying to save someone from taking their own life says more about us rather than the other person. We can convince someone to look life from a different perspective (most likely ours) but we won't be doing anything different that religions have been doing for so long. We would have to force a new world view into that person's head, another narrative — most likely more hopeful in order to keep going on with the rest of us.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/peace-of-mind-near-death/
The thing is, when a person is really depressed and on the verge of suicide, they forget that life can really only go one of 3 ways - it can get worse, it can stay the same or it can get better and if a person is seriously considering suicide, then surely life has to get better, if only they can hang on ... another problem with suicide, is that suicide doesn't really stop the pain, it only passes on the pain to someone else ...
Hmmm. interesting point of view. if it were true then I could not even understand this article, but sadly, at a time in my life I thought exactly as you do. Fortunately today I do not. No there is nothing wrong with suicide - but for those who experience such a loss of a loved one, it is an extremely selfish act. And then again there is that idea of being a disembodied spirit forever tormented by the things it was unable to work out in this life - there is an idea that they will find rest in death, but that is highly unlikely, since it is only in the physical that the change can be made.
How explains science the presence of Jesus?
People from different cultures see their religious figures appearing to them in times of disillusionment, fear and/or danger. Buddhists see Buddha, Muslims see Muhammad, Christians see Jesus.
Human live their life by aspiring to other humans. When someone is a deep believer and thinks about their religious figure all the time then it is bound to appear in their dreams or even start appearing in objects. Same thing can happen when we watch a movie late night and some of the action appears in the dream.
The brain lives behind footprints, much like the ones we leave in the sand when we walk down the beach. There are even sights of mass delusions where people convince each other about the presence of something.
A few years back I wanted to test this hypothesis. I devised an experiment. I drew a small dot on a picture above the sky and spread the rumor among UFO believers. In less than 2 hours my photograph became national news and people even started swearing to have seen the light in the street while they were driving and other weird occurrences. Once I planted the seed the thing took off like wild fire.
This is to demonstrate how all religions, beliefs, rumours and conspiracies work. Humans like to trick each other in believing their own version of reality. When too many people gather then the idea gains credibility and nobody questions the original source.
You had your own views of life which you shared, but in my own views I can't accept that Tak ng our own life by committing suicide is.nothing wrong with, I guess you are wrong. Yes, in every corner of the world suffered differently, people, person to person experiencing so much pained or bad doing by the others. Many time maybe it creeps into our mind to end up this all for we cannot bear it anymore. By doing so you think you end up the pained but the truth is you escaped life, scared to faced it,.in fact your closing your mind to accept that you can still have a chance to survive, you made up your mind because you think suicide is the only solution. By doing it, you also tagging someone to death like what happened to them. If only she fight and look further ahead who knows what lies beyond that lined. Sad to say she will never know for she decide and committed what supposed not to be made.
I think you don't believed in the holy scripture that's why you had that kind of views or you also deals a very tough and hard life. But doesn't came into your mind why you are still here, communicating, expresses what you feel? Because you still believed in yourself, because you are strong, because you are not like them,.that the only thing that they knew to escaped life reality is by taking their own lives, because you still believed you can make it change into much better stage. Your not or they are not the one who suffered and feel the pained. People who done that looses their hope and giving up their faith, and forgotten WHO they really needs.
Be strong, and God bless.
Majority of people think suicide is egoistical but what if someone just couldn't hold the unbearable pain? I'd rather to do it than to suffer all my life with constant unbearable pain.
People might say ' I've been there,I understand your pain' but honestly they don't. If a friend of mine would try to suicide, I'd just ask them how are they going to do it and why are they going to do it. I'd ask if it really worth it and if their pain is strongly unbearable so they choose to do so. I would respect their choices.
Speaking about people who's associated with suicide person, they might feel that they 'lost' someone but I see it as the same thing when we lost material belongings. If you lost it, it's either will bring you to downfall or another awakening,
My position is in the gray part because I really think that it's okay to die when it's truly needed. However, I only support it under medical procedures and assistance just so it won't cause any further pain or failures.
Would you let someone suffering all their life? while you're pretending to understand them? isn't that egoistical too?
No pain endures, no suffering lasts. That is the truth, one will become numb to anything that endures, and as everything changes and is temporal nothing lasts. Unbearable pain gives way to unconsciousness, or it's not unbearable. Most people suicide out of Desperation, that specific suffering, and all lack a perspective on that and the impact their acts have.
No it is not the truth. I have chronic pain for more than 5 years and it is not getting better.
Avoid being a dick and speak for everyone when you have no idea what others are going through.
Chronic pain is what I have too, for way longer than five years, so don't assume anything you Decepticon, it's quite evident that no suffering last, and no pain endures, you only have to recognize this truth so that when you are happy or the pain is not there it's validated, again and again. When you go to sleep the pain is gone, when you pass out the pain is gone, when the pain isn't there it's not there. Therefore it stopped, or subsided and thus the sliver lining.
I think it's absolutely clear that for some people in some conditions, pain would not only last them until their deaths, but would keep getting worse.
Finding silver linings is a separate issue and people's ability to do that and adapt to the pain differs and any generalization in that sense is bound to be fallacious.
The point is that no pain endures, no suffering lasts. Not that I'm saying people should be tormented in pain till they die. Yet there is a threshold of pain and the same for suffering, so that psychological pain and physical pain is neither constant or without end and when that threshold is passed it's lights out and pain and suffering is no more, as everything in this world it's hardly constant, that's why you can keep your hand in the fire for ever, but it will only burn for so long. Being tormented by pain would require someone to endure what nobody can endure without passing out. When they get back to it that pain might emerge once more, but nobody can endure torment or constant torment, the body either becomes burned out in that respect/numb or you pass out, or both.
That's a generalization that sounds poetic but I don't think it has been shown to always be the case. For some people the threshold does not adjust with time and the pain is not sharp enough to get you to pass out.
Our minds and bodies are not machines and don't always act according to the pattern you are describing and there are always things that could malfunction to prevent the mechanisms that you are describing from working the way you are describing.
Additionally, what good is passing out or sleeping if you are still in pain after you wake up. Even if the pain is not constant for some and they do get a breaks, it can still be unbearable to them.
well said
Albert Camus's The Myth of Sisyphus - "There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy." Please continue reading here. This is the most influential and powerful book I've ever read. Can't speak highly enough of it.
Read it
The link you have provided doesn't allow one to read the actual essay in question, it is the last chapter in the book.
and at least for me pages 65 to 213 aren't available in that view.
And, more importantly, don't forget that that quote, which I carried around with me for many years, just like that, is taken out of context, once you read the chapter in question, which I only did earlier this year for the first time.
I feel very different now about sharing it so glibly as I used too, now I am aware of said context.
The chapter is copied onto a post on my wordpress blog.
And you can't read it on google books, as I stated above.
If the owner of this blog @kyriacos asks me to, I will link that reprint of the essay in question.
I have not read all of the preceding chapters either, but I was specifically looking for that one, and was able to get hold of the text for that essay alone.
Have you seen how much Camus's books cost? Insane
well, I said just like that, but I actually had it in my head as
I have made a couple of artworks about it
All your choices are only your choices, it is not egoistical to decide your own fate, I'm not speaking particularly of suicide, it is of all things
I agree with you, But it's definitely a hard one for me to read today. Suicide is not selfish, And sometimes people try and try and just can't seem to win in their lives. Sometimes it's the systems we have in place. That make it hard to do dig yourself out. Other times you just might be in a horrible place. But it's messed up when people make the suicide all about them, Calling the person "selfish" for what they did. Those people who said that, Could probably be called selfish for not doing everything they could to help that person, if thats what they needed of course.
You have no right to tell someone how to live their lives.
precisely. well said.
Nobody is telling anyone how to live, and I can judge someone who behaves poorly, I can judge someone who makes such a choice especially if they are close to me and I can consider how inconsiderate they are to others or how foolish and careless they are to squander the gift of life as I would expect others do that to me were I to bring them such inconsiderate and foolish "company".
They don't have to consider you. It is their life. not yours.
Who is being selfish now?
Those who don't consider others, that's who's selfish, or do I need to hit you over the head with a dictionary opened up to selflessness?
I think though, that if you live your life to make other people happy, then you're doing yourself a great disservice. She might have considered staying alive so her friends wouldn't suffer the loss. But every day of her life was filled with pain - physical and emotional. And her physical pain not only prevented her from living a full life of experiences and interaction, there was also no end in sight. She hadn't been suffering from IC for weeks or months. It had been years.
So, she could stay alive, isolated and in pain, so that her friends and family would be okay, or trust that they know her well enough to understand her decision to finally stop this endless cycle. They might not agree with her decision, and yes, it's tragic and creates so much psychological pain for others. But she was the one living in pain, trying every single day to make things better, and constantly being knocked back down.
It was her life, no one else's. And the people who have lost her have their own issues to deal with now. Those are and were none of her responsibility. One cannot live one's life in order to please others. She made a choice. We may not like it, but tough titties. We didn't live her life.
Interesting perspective. I will tell you that my Sweetheart died December 12, 2016. she had eye surgery 6 days before and they took her off her blood thinners. We will never know if she went back on them. However that last week she was very dark and extremely depressed. Many times she had talked of committing suicide and even tried one in 2003. Six months before she died she said she could take her life and no one would ever know. We were not married but she was hitting dead ends all over the place from her children treating her like shit, health issues, financial concerns, and all coming to a climax in December. They never did an autopsy. There was a 50 50 probability she did. Her roommate thought she did. I do not know. I do know however I desperately miss her and am still working though the loss. They departed may be in a better place. However when suicide is involved it leaves a dumpster full of psychological baggage behind for the living to sort though. I will leave you with this video that her roommate thinks of when she thinks of her life and death. It speaks volumes of Depression - Alice in chains black gives Way to Blue
Seen it. She made a decision. Nothing wrong with that.
Man, I would like start by acknowledging you and your pain and torment, and your bravery and patience to write it out.
It was very touching and I think you should write more about it, if you haven't already been doing so.
I hope I am not sounding condescending, as that's the opposite thing to what I want to achieve.
People tell me I'm pretty good to talk to, (surprises me a bit sometimes, but some people like swearing I suppose) so if you would like a sympathetic ear and an earful too, hit me up.
I really don't know what else to say here, without repeating mine and other's comments elsewhere.
I am serious about what I just said too. Goes for anybody reading this. I am on Discord with the same name. I hang in PAL usually.
Yes, you are right. Suicide is good option for more people. But the process is not pleasant. Therefore, the suicide must be made in government Hospital.
Not pleasant for other that have to go on living.
Yes, you are right. Not pleasant. But people need have right to finish own live at any time, I think.
I don't have any answers. But even if my life sucked i will still strive to make the lives of people around me better before I leave this Earth. I value my family and friend's happiness over mine.
Even if the people around me aren't real I will continue to work hard for the people I love, even if it's insanity in some perspectives.
I've had dark moments in my life where I didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel, there was no future for me, and was contemplating ending it. It's the ability to endure those times and not give up to reach a point where life becomes beautiful again. I will continue down the rabbit hole.
I also accept that there are mental illnesses and do not judge those who decide to "unplug'."
Also what about the super rich people who were given everything in life and still comitted suicide? It's not just a poor thing, look at young celebrities who were given everything and life and went crazy/weird when they grew up.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but what you chose to think given those perspectives is just sad.
Everyone has their own reasons whether rich or poor. Life is torment. Some accept this and end it, some accept this and endure through it. Some find delusions to keep them going.
Just had a friend attempt earlier this week. Thank god they pumped her stomach at 2 am. It is selfish and shortsighted if they are in good physical health.
She texted me a personalized suicide note. I got it after she attempted because I was away from my phone. Could not reach her for six hours.
The pain I went through is something I could never wish on my worst enemy.
I did not want to tell anyone on here because it felt too personal. But. This is a very dark and yet interesting argument. I'm definatly doing a post tomorrow on it.
Question for @kyriacos (Genuine curiosity, not intending to be combative or trying to set you up for a counter argument.)
So if someone comes to the ER with serious injuries due to a failed suicide attempt. If the doctors perform no actions. They will die.
The patient remains conscious enough to request death.
What should happen?
They should assist that person die in their own terms.
So every person who asks to be killed should be?
Edit: Right then and there they should stop trying to save their life and let them bleed out?
Yes. and Yes
here is how they do it in Switzerland
http://assisted-dying.org/blog/2016/03/04/how-and-how-much-for-assisted-suicide-in-switzerland/
Is that where they support young people in ending their life?
Or is that where they support people with a clarity of mind but a deteriorating physical form which brings both pain and suffering to their loved ones and themselves in spite of their clarity of mind to end their life and be released from the torment?
When we have to discuss specifics or details such as that no wonder a Decepticon will go mute, you cannot compute, can you, things such as "betterment" or "selflessness".
This is an interesting perspective, but I disagree with the premise that preventing suicide is rooted in a religious belief. Suicide can be viewed as a waste of potential aside from whether you believe life is sacred. Each individual has the ability to contribute to the betterment of the human race, and often times those that contribute the most are the ones that have gone through some of the worst experiences. So I think you can look at suicide as a negative action without it stemming from a religious view or from a place of emotional attachment. How many intelligent young people have committed suicide, and what could they have done in their lifetimes had they not done it?
Agreed. I becomes a certain afforded option with age. When we enter the world, we consume and we are obligated to serve in return.
After a lifetime of service and the body is physically deteriorating, there comes a point where weighing life ahead and misery and pain are tough decisions best left to the elderly.
That being said, it is tragic nevertheless, especially with the recent loss of STEEM's first suicide.
One thing I particularly find interesting about the post includes the loved ones left behind.
I never said that is rooted in a religious belief. I said that negative connotations are.
betterment towards what? earthily patriotism? Silly as regular patriotism.
Again. patriotism. why do they have to do something for others? It is what I said. It comes down to individualism. Why having to offer anything to anyone?
Right, but my argument is that negative connotations could just as easily come from an evolutionary predisposition than from a religious belief. When young people, in particular, choose to commit suicide, the feeling is often that they had more to offer.
My argument has nothing to do with patriotism or allegiance, it has to do with the ability of the person in question to accomplish tangible things that could benefit humanity as a whole. Medical discoveries, works of art, volunteer work. It just seems to me that if you dismiss negative connotations around suicide as religious predispositions or emotional nonsense, you miss the other more practical and tangible losses to humanity as a whole that result from the loss of a life.
Well, in some cultures suicide is not considered a bad thing. In fact, suicide is condemned mostly in religious countries. Then again, religion is an evolutionary mechanism on and in itself and I guess no culture wants to have less members as much as a football team wants to compete with the full team.
if they don't matter to you as a person then why on earth would you care staying alive for others in order to develop their gadgets? Now that's what I call selfish.
Name two such cultures.
Name two countries that aren't "religious".
If it's evolutionary how come the most ancient have a creation myth and a creator?
Yeah, good one, because they could have a family, and share their happiness and create and help others, that means @jaredcwillis is saying they don't matter as a person, spoken like a true Decepticon.
Japan, Aboriginal communities of the Northern Australia, Switzerland (they even have centers assisting it)..many others.
All countries have religions of some sort but non religious countries are Vietnam, Japan, Czech Republic, Sweden, Britain...many others.
Because we are all homo-sapiens, same species and due to the fact we can envision our own demise we have creates stories that center us in a creation story that make us escape death. Also. Who created the creator? That's your question as a religious person.
They don't have the same aspirations as you. Simple as that
All those cultures look down on young people committing suicide and rightly so. So come again.
So all countries are religious countries like it or not. You only have to look at the numbers of believers and if those in power follow those beliefs.
It's sidestepping the obvious, that religions have been around in the most ancient, and there is no "progression" of any kind and evolution therefore is a make believe theory.
No it's not my question, that's wholly your concern.
Regardless of the same aspirations as me or not you insinuated that jared was saying they are not a person because they should aspire to contribute, which is false, he way saying their potential was thrown away instead of harnessed and never said what constitutes a person, simple as that.
The negative connotations AREN'T rooted in religious beliefs, they are evident in the wasted potential, before and in spite of any religious context.
You're silly with your examples, try harder.
Try again, obviously you don't understand the implications of being human or that no man is an island.
I recommended this but then again you have no soul, you're the gunk of a mutation from the cosmic soup without intrinsic purpose or essence outside the primordial soup narrative, a fundamental materialist that believes all disease to stem from improper chemicals, so the point of brotherhood, the point of "betterment" is lost on you, and I do pity that sad lonely, isolated, perspective.
Read some more on the subject of suicide
https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/06/03/tolstoy-confession/
Wasted potential for those who value life. Religions developed to impose onto one another in means of ideological and cultural domination. Fewer members meant less power. This is why they condemned suicide and murder but it was ok to kill others in battle.
You are not saying anything. Patriotism..aka "for the good of earth" is silly because really there is no other competition and even if there was it is still a mind game, not an objective value. It is yourself that needs to try harder and justify existence in means of helping others.
No man is an island sure. We are all social species, but if someone feels the right to opt out you are in no position to judge them. it is a silly rat race at the end.
The soul is a silly invention. There is no evidence for it other than religion, which btw, has no more evidence for the existence of soul than Harry Potter's books for magic potions.
I read all the books from Tolstoy. Your point?