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RE: I Am Sorry for My Last Post!
@lukestokes, I'd like to remind you of this https://steemit.com/witness/@jerrybanfield/jerrybanfield-witness-update-1 and in particular what you commented on it....
lukestokes · 2 months ago
I'm very glad to see you owning the mistakes you've made in the past. Greed and impatience are some nasty things. Some might ask, is this an apology for getting caught or an actual change in character? The latter are quite rare. I'm hopeful. Time will tell.
Feels like deja-vu?
Thank you @drakos. I'm well aware of it, and thinking about that exact comment was the main reason I was so disappointed and discouraged to see his account creation scheme. I'll say "scheme" instead of "scam" because I do think (in his own mind) he was working to help others while making a nice profit for himself. That's what many successful people do.
His quick response to this seems to indicate to me he is genuinely trying to change. Crying about this issue, going to AA meetings, feeling tormented about time away from his family... well, Jerry doesn't come across as the most stable fellow to me, but that's why I'm looking forward to meeting him in person to better understand where he's coming from. I recognize we're all the product of our inputs up to this point and some of us have an easier time than others. I'm willing to offer the benefit of the doubt because I think encouragement and tough love together is how we can move towards a better world we all want to live in.
In this case, I think he made a stupid mistake and he owned it. He recognized it as a bad pattern, and he's working to improve. If I thought he was outright trying to harm people here or this community, I certainly wouldn't give him my support. We can either get down on people who do that or encourage them along their path towards improvement.
I sure know which I'd prefer if the situation were reversed, and I was the one screwing up.
If he was a regular blogger I wouldn't care what schemes he uses to earn a buck. But being a witness is a different league, which comes with a responsibility toward the platform. Things like that should never happen in the first place. I can forgive it once, twice, but three times? It becomes difficult. Everyone has personal real life challenges and difficulties, but that's not an excuse to mess up over and over hoping that things will be alright. I bust my ass 12 hours a day helping newbies, trying to gain followers and voters. I spend time interacting with people, I don't have whales upvoting me with thousands of dollars a month. So when I see someone trying to swindle people repeatedly, that grinds my gears badly.
"But being a witness is a different league, which comes with a responsibility toward the platform."
An excellent point. The community's votes ultimately draw that line.
It looks like an opportunistic moment grown from genuinely trying to help, as far as it's explained. He clearly tried to do something good while monetising it which took away from the first intention a little. He's extremely stupid, being in the position of a top 30 witness and knowingly offered it or genuinely didn't research/forgot information he clearly already knew. I guess that's for everyone to decide but I'd like to think anyone with half a brain would have done the latter and just didn't think.
I would add, some of the anger seemed to be greater due to a misunderstanding of his offer - some people thought he wanted the full $50, when a portion was to be preloaded as Steem Power, and I merely pointed that out. Where the SP comes from, delegated or actually in there, is another question in my mind!
If there is a service, much like anything else it takes time, unless it can be automated, and it'll take people to do that. I don't find it largely unreasonable to expect some sort of payment for that service especially if you potentially have a higher demand in time. However, when someone else is offering it virtually for free, it of course devalues your proposition and makes you look a bit silly.
Don't kill me, I know I'm a little new here to say this, but perhaps generally you witnesses could do well to consider your actions regarding selling of products and services similar to this or upvote bots if we want to create a trusting community and bring new users to the platform. We need figureheads who are seen to truly care about those who use it and maybe not be seen to try and make money from them...just a thought.
If you followed his blog since he started on Steemit, you'd see that every move he made was money oriented. He constantly preached that witnesses 'make a lot money', and now we have a lot of newbie witnesses, who don't know what they're doing, trying to make it BIG like jerry, because of his false dream selling. I specifically wrote a post to address that: https://steemit.com/witness-category/@drakos/the-witness-business-promises-of-riches
"He constantly preached that witnesses 'make a lot money'"
Objectively true, although it's no path to easy earnings.
"lot of newbie witnesses, who don't know what they're doing, "
They have basically no hope of making it to the top 20, then, right? How much harm is done?
"trying to make it BIG like jerry, because of his false dream selling."
At least he does point out after-the-fact it's not a get rich quick scheme, unlike craig grant.
And yet, how much money is he spending on advertising to promote Steemit? I don't think his motives are completely bad or completely selfish. I agree with your concerns as far as his actions and the expectations of a witness. I'm willing to give him a third chance because I value the real efforts he's putting out there to promote the platform.
And yet on those very same promotional posts, he was crying vote for me as witness. I too recall the comments he made about witnesses and making a lot of money. It was at this point he lost me. It became self evident his "community" activities were self-orientated. There are many other hardworking people on this platform who really put a great deal of effort into services to improve our Steemit experience, yet do it for free, or what they earn in from upvote support.
I think that's a fair assessment. I personally don't believe in pure altruism because I think everyone is motivated both intrinsically and extrinsically by various reward responses within their own brains. For me, I want to create a world I (and my family) want to live in. Even if I did something that appeared altruistic, it would be towards that end which relates to my own existence.
IMO, one of the biggest challenges facing Steemit right now (beyond the UX/UI issues, lack of communication about downtimes, signup verification delays, etc) is the lack of marketing to non-crypto enthusiasts. Jerry, with all his flaws, is doing something practical about that with his advertising campaigns. I'm willing to try him out as a witness for a time because of that effort which costs real money. He's committed 80% of his witness rewards (if he makes the top 20) to be put back into advertising. If lack of effective marketing is a real problem here, having one of the top 20 witnesses actively working on that seems like something that would benefit us all.
". I'm willing to try him out as a witness for a time because of that effort which costs real money. He's committed 80% of his witness rewards (if he makes the top 20) to be put back into advertising. If lack of effective marketing is a real problem here, having one of the top 20 witnesses actively working on that seems like something that would benefit us all."
I agree. It's not like witness positions have terms. There's no "4 more years" happening here.
Yep @drakos I dunno why I'm even writing this to be honest as I don't know the history, but I guess I believe in giving people a chance. Forgive me if that's naïve.
Everyone makes mistakes and it does sound like he's made his fair share. However, putting yourself in the spotlight you'll always get criticised for this and for that, perhaps it's all justified too I'm definitely not trying to defend his actions just being Devil's advocate. Sometimes it's really easy to get the wrong impression of people's intent by their words or their actions. Or you get it right and they're just sneaky bastards!
What I would say is that sometimes a person with his energy and clear commitment can really help create and sustain interest and momentum from the outside - I discovered Steemit through one of his posts, alongside a couple other things. And I did find some stuff he said to be exaggerated, untrue or speculative (when seeming sure) but it still drew me in! I'm not condoning that approach to marketing, but it does work. The flamboyant crazy salesman, while pissing some people off and treading on toes can make the conversion numbers, the content, community and platform should hopefully do the talking after that.
If Jerry is what you think he is then he will hopefully learn to be better or he'll fail sometime soon...
"I discovered Steemit through one of his posts,"
Me too...simply from YT reach, I wasn't a subscriber.
Honestly, he probably even got me with a clickbait-y title...darn it, it worked on me.
It's not a swindle if the vendor gives the buyer what the buyer paid for. I am only talking about this $50/account deal.
"I'll say "scheme" instead of "scam" because..."
Even more importantly, it's not a scam if it delivers what is promised. It can be a bad price but that doesn't make it a scam. I'm always careful to call Genesis Mining an "almost scam".
"Jerry doesn't come across as the most stable fellow to me, but that's why I'm looking forward to meeting him in person to better understand where he's coming from."
I would be interested to hear your thoughts afterward. I know my perception changed.
"I sure know which I'd prefer if the situation were reversed, and I was the one screwing up."
A good point that I used to think was trite.
You would think different if you worked with him on other platforms before steemit and see the same thing over and over. so much so he got himself expelled.
Jerry has serious history with this sort of stuff. serious. and was given time to change and did not. Now I watch intelligent steemains make the same mistakes and fall for the same tricks. You watch, the steemit community will rise together and remove what is not in the best interest of steemit, its history repeating.
By the way, i have worked on other platforms jerry worked on :-) so been there done that and I wont be spending my steem on a tshirt
Thank you for communicating that experience, @paulag. To me, he seems open about his previous failures. Do you think he's hiding them in some way? I like to believe the best about people, and that they are capable of positive change. Personally, I don't think I've been tricked yet other than I did decide to support his witness campaign with my vote (for now) because of what I see to be claims about marketing campaigns he's investing in. Do you think those are fraudulent claims he's making about his marketing campaigns?
This I completely agree with. As part of that, I also think the Steemit community has no need to go on witch hunts or police behavior they don't prefer if there are no victims involved. Are there victims of Jerry's here on Steemit? Is there anyone he hasn't refunded who has requested refunds? These facts are things I'm interested in when making decisions about his actions and whether or not his character is improving as a member of this community. I'm less concerned with whether or not I like him as a personality.
In this specific example, he claims to have shut down the service before anyone used it. Of all the comments here, I don't see any victims who feel taken advantage of in this case. Maybe that's because of our policing efforts and without them there would be many victims. That's quite possible. Ideally, Jerry can do a better job in the future of policing himself like the rest of the adults here. :)
"Maybe that's because of our policing efforts and without them there would be many victims."
I would agree with this statement.
And i would also agree, that if he was good for steemit, it doesnt matter if i, or you like him as a person.
I have called Jerry out as a lair when he proclaims he gave up 10K a month making online courses for steemit.
You might be interested in reading this further comment @lukestokes I left for Jerry with no reply for him. https://steemit.com/story/@jerrybanfield/i-am-sorry-for-my-last-post#@paulag/re-jerrybanfield-re-stellabelle-re-jerrybanfield-i-am-sorry-for-my-last-post-20171010t231442861z
On saying all of that @lukestokes, you are the type of person that shows hope and gives opportunity. You are one of the good guys. It is evident from the compassion you have shown in your post. You have so much more experience on steemit than I have, but I have 6 odd years in the same circle as jerry!
I'm with you on this Luke, you summed up my thoughts on the matter better than I could. Owning up to our mistakes is not easy and Jerry did so here so he has every benefit of the doubt from me. I would add that he never attacks anybody or tries to tear down or destroy, he only tries to create. Some creations are duds, and some are great. That's just how it goes.