RE: Good-bye Steemmonsters, I've Had Enough With This Last Tourney Twist (HAPPILY UPDATED!)
I hear you Dave, I hear you...Problem is I have a bunch of cards that are now 'worthless' in comparison to what I payed for them (just like many others of course)...Asking people to pay a 5 steem entry fee without maxed cards in a tournament you simply can't win, is completely and utterly ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that new cards being constantly introduced into the game, only makes it more expensive. Some of those cards have to be bought and not earned. That fee is way too high anyway, even for maxed cards considering how expensive it is to get into the game in the first place. How am I supposed to even have a hope of being able to recoup my initial outlay by playing low level tournaments? So many things have gone into a completely different direction to what was proposed and /or promised, that its become a total joke honestly. I am not happy either, especially when we constantly get given a BS Public Relations response to something that they should not be dismissing lightly. Nobody gives a fuck about their customers any more, only what they get from them....then they just run off with the loot and say fuck you, your problem now.
That's what money does to people, @palikari123. It's sad, but true.
We've been accepting their (his) BS for way too long...
I tried my absolute best to remain as positive as possible (which I think I managed to do for quite a while). But with every let down and diversion from the original intent of the game, the frustration builds to a point where you can't stay silent anymore. It's a real shame because I really do love this game, and I saw the huge potential of it from the beginning when the first gameplay version was released publicly. I think it will most likely still be a success, but the barrier to even get started, let alone keep up with everyone and have a competitive level deck, is just too high of an obstacle for most users on this platform. Maybe that's was the intention was all along. It's starting to seem that way....
I've got the exact same feeling. It's indeed a shame, as I love to play the game - but it became clear to me a while ago we're not the ones they were targeting. And maybe, from a business perspective, that might be a smart move... or not. Time will tell...
I was going to highlight parts of it and say "exactly", but when I went to highlight it I realized I had almost the whole thing. So I'll just say you summed up the point of view of many and I completely agree with your thoughts. They will find out the hard way that they need the PKs to play this game... too bad they didn't provide the right atmosphere to keep a talented person like you that is tailor made for this type of game. Thanks for speaking out.
I played with you several times and I remember that you are one of the top players, especially bronze/silver tourneys.
I wonder what makes you angry about this to understand the issue better - having high-level league (that basically require high level cards) tourneys with entry fees? To me, it seems that there are at least 4x tourneys without the entry fee and they should be sufficient for various card levels.
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Hey @glory7. Thanks for the response, and apologies for not getting back to you sooner. Hopefully it was worth the wait :P
Can I just start off by saying, can you please stop kicking my butt in these tournaments? Thanks! lol...
I don't usually share too many opinions about the game publicly, and when I do, I’m usually a lot more skewed towards the positive realm of commentary. After all, I do very much still believe that the positives far outweigh the negatives, especially when it comes to the gameplay itself.
I think I do come off a little angry in my comment, but that is born out of the frustration of seeing what could be a wonderful game for all, being shifted towards only catering towards the high end of player.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe that there should be various levels to play in and that the prizemoney should reflect the different levels of play/initial outlay players have made. I also think that the best players in the game deserve to be sufficiently rewarded for their obvious skill and ability to constantly navigate a field of players to come out on top. That's what tournaments are all about, and the winners should always be rewarded the most.
However, I do think that they are making a huge mistake by not paying out more places in general. I know that sucks for the winners and for the players at the very top, but if the money ends up only going into the hands of a few, then the money will eventually dry up and it will become unsustainable. That will actually end up hurting the top players even more in the long run. How? Many players will start to feel they have no chance of placing in the money, let alone having a chance of winning, and will refuse to even enter after a while. If there are no players left to play with, then there are no tournaments and the game will die.
This is where the entry fees will end up compounding that effect and exponentially increase the chances of people either leaving the game entirely or 'go broke' trying. When people outlay a significant amount of money just to purchase the actual tools that allows them to even begin to compete in a game of skill such as this, then adding another barrier of entry such as entry fees on top of that, only shows to me personally that the model is either already failing, or will end up doing so. The tournament field sizes will be the judge of that. I can already see the player pool shrinking in general.
Another part of the problem is, that everyone is being encouraged or incentivised to level their cards to compete at the higher levels. This is leaving many of the lower levels with fewer and fewer players as time goes by.
I say all of this from previous experiences in the poker world. At a certain point in time, most of the money ended up in the hands of the few at the top (specifically online poker). The industry was forced into changing its payout structures and paying out to more places in the tournaments. This was a smart move, as people were able to play longer with their bankroll by placing in the money more often and getting a more consistent return, which in turn kept players in the game longer that would have otherwise gone broke a lot sooner and left the game entirely.
To me, the entire point of the crypto based blockchain is to provide a model and platform that can self-sustain either an entire community project that benefits many, as well as the ability to generate the prizepools themselves. Entry fees should not be required in this case.
That’s how I see things for the most part anyway….
I 100% agree with payouts need to be expanded. I brought this up weeks back and it looked like they headed in the right direction to only go back to a version of the old model . I used poker as my example as well and even provided charts that showed tournament payouts across multiple million and billion dollar companies. To be fair the auto tournaments are new so I think we need to give them time to work out any kinks. Hopefully they are able to implement payouts based on the % of players entered at some point.
Edit: On further review of the finished tournaments it looks like they have expanded the payout structure.
That's a smart move and I'm happy to hear that.
Thanks for your response also and I agree with giving them a break on the tournaments and functionality part....no problem or issues there - you can never have things perfect from the get go.
Hey @glory7, this is another topic (other than the imposition of fees to enable us to get entry into the tourneys we were promised to have entry to) that I think is important to understand. @palikari123 describes it beautifully. I think everyone is going to want to explain to you things because 1) you're a great player and have respect of all and 2) you have shown an openness that is refreshing. So thank you for taking the time to interact with people here! :)
Thank you very much for letting me join this healthy, informative, friendly conversation. My pleasure.
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First of all, I appreciate your detailed reply. It helped me to understand the issue much better.
And second, I thought you kicked my ass several times! Maybe we only remember the games we lost.
Okay, going back to the main topic...
Among the points you made, I believe that the following two are crucial:
I am not sure how to solve this issue, nor do I know the impact of entry fee on high level tourneys. However, healthy discussion like this would certainly help.
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I actually don't understand the issue or problem with having more players playing in the diamond league tournaments myself. Most people with non-competitive decks will play once or twice and not play again anyway, as they will quickly realise that they have no shot of winning. Fee or no fee. I myself don't play them often, and there is no way I will pay a fee to even try - I know I would just be handing money over to the best players, who I know I can't consistently beat atm. If you think you have no shot of winning a tournament then it really is a waste of time and money for those people and not the top tier players. They will get paid to beat the weaker players anyway, so whats the big deal? And the best players would actually want the weak players in the field, as that's where the value actually comes from. You may get unlucky once or twice in the short term, but in the long run you are printing money against those players.
One of the biggest talking points amongst the SM community has always been to expand the player base as much as possible. That's a good idea for obvious reasons. But if players need to purchase cards to play the game and then have to also pay fees while losing consistently, they are more likely to get disheartened and give up, than if they didn't have to pay fees just for the privelege to enter a tournament.
The issue with paying a fee, comes from the fact that the prizepools were supposed to be generated from pack sales and the SM community account, and there was never a mention of fees being introduced into the game. This is why so many of us aren't buying the argument being given in favour of fees for tournaments (aside from the spam issue).
The reason why I made the second point you highlighted, is because there is a disconnect between the reason given for fees to be introduced (wasting peoples time) and the very likely reality that there will be much larger field sizes in diamond level tournaments in future anyway when more and more players level up. What happens when the game grows to the point of having 10,000 players all levelled up to diamond level playing tournaments? Will everyone be wasting their time then? So, to me that just doesnt make sense, because that is whole point.....To have more people playing a the highest possible level rather than less, which also creates the opportunity for more traffic and much bigger prize pools!
Thanks so much for giving us your time @glory7!
곰돌이가 @glory7님의 소중한 댓글에 $0.007을 보팅해서 $0.016을 살려드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 3311번 $39.564을 보팅해서 $41.272을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~