Here's A Good Reason To Not Invest In PALNet

in #steemleo5 years ago


Moderators used to have 30k coins and now it seems like they all got airdropped 10k more coins. What's up with that?

Also, there seems to be no mention of this on the trending tab.

Did I miss something?

In light of this new information... I am now powering...


Yeah I'm not worried yet, double down.

I'm going to support these communities until the liquidity hits the sell wall. Value is capped at the sell wall, so that's where I sell. Also, the more coins that get bought from the sell wall, the more incentive that account has to exit scam / power down. Not that I think that's going to happen, just that the possibility is there.


How do I bring value to PALNet & SteemLEO

Does this look like value to you? Seems like leeching to me. A whale (me) dominating the reward pool and centralizing distribution even further? Yikes.

I try not to shitpost (except for that one time) but like I've said in the past, blogs just don't have a lot of value, so the value that I am bringing is being undercut by hurting the distribution. All I can do to try to keep token values high is power up, even if selling them might improve distribution. It's a weird line to walk.

Ideally I suppose I'd be out there sifting through content looking for quality, a job without pay that can be undercut by other whales doing the opposite. I have some ideas to avoid these situations. I call it 'virtual delegation/curation'. I'll save that for another post though so I can leech even more rewards from the pool. (jk it's because my posts are always too long anyway).



The best way I can think of to add value to these new communities is to create token sinks. Create dapps that send coins to @null to promote a deflationary economy that gains value at the cost of volatility. This is exactly what the 'promoted' feature of Condenser nodes does.

Imagine if I created like a stupid Farmville game where the only way to create wheat was to solve a puzzle, wait a certain amount of time, solve another puzzle, then send a certain amount of PAL coins to @null.

Rinse and repeat for other assets.

Burn SteemLEO to mine Iron. Burn Weed to make... weed. Whatever, you get the idea. By solving the puzzle, you incorporate proof-of-brain. By waiting you create impatience and more scarcity. By burning tokens to @null you create unhackable/unbottable digital assets. Add them altogether and there's a lot of artificial scarcity there with a lot of value for both the digital assets being created and the digital assets being vaporized.

and the winner is.jpg


Instead, what are developers doing? Creating centralized projects that they control. Making new coins for new communities rather than bringing value to communities that already exist.

Too many chiefs, not enough indians.

Honestly though this is just all part of the process. Why would I bring value to Steem when I can bring value to two other projects that I'm a whale on. The financial incentives have to match up so that people don't feel like they are being exploited. We'll figure it out eventually.

Until then, Steem on!


Maybe this will have a Streisand Effect. :D
The mods are able to get a maximum of 140,000 tokens for a year of ongoing service to build and better the platform. That is contingent upon maintaining a satisfactory level of involvement and the group agreeing that what the moderator is doing adds value to the platform. We decided to release the payments over time to first and foremost, not overpower the distribution, but secondly to encourage the team to remain active and uphold all of the standards that we expect of our leadership. If they don't do so, the coins won't be issued. It looks like you already figured out that the amounts were listed in the whitepaper though.

took me a while! But i got it! lol

Hmm, faulty analysis I think. You are neglecting your competition.

Your posts on steemleo are pretty good and the community agrees. Voters are incentivized to vote for something so they get their share of the LEO rewards pool. Value is subjective and given the constraints of the situation, voters are valuing your posts over others. That's OK.

Now what to do with those rewards after you get them and after the voters get theirs - if you want to burn them, then do that.

I think it's best to hold oneself to a high standard in this regard. I have noticed that content on the hot/trending tab can be quite lacking. Thanks for your support.

the moderators at pal worked their butts off for 2 years for very little reward. aggroed in conjunction with the pal team came up with a way not only to reward the mods, but reward everyone loyal to pal, incentivize posting and participation on a lagging server/platform, and helped create steem engine to open this up to other communities. they all have proven their dedication to the steem platform at a time when many have cashed out. any of the pal team could have cut their losses. instead they created an alternative to old steem. so with all due respect, watch and learn.

With all due respect, you could have written this entire comment just by reading the title.
Did you?


yes i read the whole title. and the post too, and the comments. most people dont. they read the title and maybe the first few paragraphs and get confused. most newbs wont understand sinks or negatively worded titles that get turned about. i am concerned about how that title got three new pal people to ask me why you are talking out negatively against pal, and how it will affect their support. next time maybe start with a title that actually reflects the intent of the post?

Dear @torico,

the moderators at pal worked their butts off for 2 years for very little reward.

I fully agree with @edicted that lack of transparency with those extra (not so little) rewards is killing trust towards PALnet platform. IT shouldn't happened


there is no lack of transparency. as was pointed out below in the comment by abh12345, this information was outlined in the white paper, which is available to anyone.

Dear @torico

Thank you for your comment.

You're representing one point of view (coming from someone well informed), I represent point of view of regular person who will see it as a lack of transparency (and that is in effect resulting with lack of trust).

In my honest opinion @edicted had a good point in creating post with this title: Here's A Good Reason To Not Invest In PALNet

this information was outlined in the white paper,

If you think that this is correct solution and that users/investors should dig into whitepaper seeking such an information, then unfortunatelly you're wrong and I really can only wish all the best to PALnet.

Obviously you may see it very differently and you may disagree. However lack of transparency is an issue right now and this publication wouldn't be posted by someone as reputable as @edicted otherwise.


this is a good point, crypto.piotr, and one that I share similar concerns on. how much should the regular person be expected to know and delve into the details of a project or post in order to understand? should we take everything at face value? should we be required to extrapolate meaning from disjointed information?

for instance if i sign a contract at a bank to borrow money, should i need to read all the legalese of terms and conditions, or can I trust the representative at the bank to condense this and explain it to me in simple language? should the writing be clear and concise? what if the subject heading is misleading or has conflicting information - is that ok?

maybe its my opinion, but i dont think average people read through every aspect of a contract or business venture unless they are a lawyer or a businessman. yes, certainly that's naive, but in reality we dont have time to become experts in every field of knowledge, so a lot goes on faith and trust. we also look at intent and emotional honesty.

any person who is new to steem will face a huge learning curve. they might not understand everything, but they do look for agreement, for simple and understandable explanations and helpful guidance. what scares them? in my opinion convoluted information, bickering, poor attitude, lack of access and lack of hope in becoming successful.

anyone wishing to invest in pal can at any time enter the pal server to ask questions in the help channel. they can view the whitepaper which has its own channel, or look it up online by googling "pal white paper steemit". it's not that hard. this is free and open access. but it actually requires people to take the initiative to ask the questions and do the research. lack of transparency would include hidden agendas or conditions, misleading information or a lack of availability of information required for decision making.

so when you are claiming a lack of transparency, do you merely mean you didnt bother to ask questions beforehand and relied on this article to alarm you? was your access to the pal server denied, was the language in the white paper unclear, or was it the fact that you latched onto a negatively titled, poorly written post, the intent of which seems to be stirring the pot to attract the attention of whales for a huge upvote/recognition? why would any average user sift thru the lack of clarity in this post for information on the subject?

the steem community is lauding new steem and wanting eli powell to drag new blood into the pool, yet we are woefully unprepared for their arrival. we have posts like this that seem designed to scare off anyone below a dolphin in their knowledge of terms and reading skills. many of our new users are from a different country, where english is a second language. they have little to no knowledge of crypto and are trusting in the community to explain what they need to know instead of making a point with no explanation or discussion then hopping to a different angle or topic.

we should ask ourselves - are we here just to bicker amonsgt ourselves as to the finer points of what constitutes transparency? or are we here to welcome the next new user to the platform with our willingness to communicate in clear simple language so that they might stay on the platform longer than a week or two before crawling back to facebook?

Dear @torico

You asked some seriously good questions. I very much appreciate your time. We may see some things differently but you earned my respect with your comments.

we have posts like this that seem designed to scare off anyone below a dolphin in their knowledge of terms and reading skills.

Seriously? You cannot expect that adding "out of the blue" such a huge amout of PAL tokens to biggest stakeholders will not result with tons of bad publicity and will worry many people out there? I think this was to be expected. And could be at least minimized.

Please keep in mind, that I really wish PALnet all the best and I invested quite heavily into that platform. And I think that it all may only scare some people away.

Thank you again for your kind reply.


i agree we will need to agree to disagree. the drop was not out of the blue, it was announced and spoken about in several posts that aggroed and minnowsupport released.

these extra tokens were not rewarded to stakeholders, but to PAL moderators and developers heavily invested in the community, people who have done an overwhelming amount of work the last 2 years and will continue to do so over the next year.

tokens are dependent on the success of the community, and are a fair form of renumeration for work done. tokens can lose value as easily as they earn value.

would it be smarter to sell tokens to the highest bidder, and have pal "whales" who do not have the best interests of the community in mind but only want to make money and leverage control of the vote? how was giving tokens to people who have proven their loyalty and dedication to PAL unfair?

how else could it have be minimized? well, lets say by not using the topic as click bait for a post, creating distrust and negativity about the "lack of transparency", mentioning the possibility of "exit scam" to induce more fear, then not even discussing the facts but instead veering off to talk about why we should all invest regardless? such fear mongering has no place in a platform that we are trying to introduce to new investors.

I didn't know that about the mods. I wonder if something was decided once the airdrop was over to burn everything but 10k for all the mods ? Ill prob chat it up on discord a bit here soon.

I agree on the burn part and I think DEC does this the best so far with their multiple ways of burning DEC

There are 2.1M Palcoin that will go to moderators.

LOL I guess I'm really bad at math...

2100000 / 15 = 140,000 coins per moderator.

I don't think PAL is going to exit scam. I somewhat know quite a few of those people. I don't think they'd cut and run with money. Of course...that doesn't mean that someone couldn't necessarily. I don't really know how they structured their organization, who has access to what keys, etc.

I think it's far more likely that they'll do something stupid. The chances of major stupidity seem to rise with the more people you have.

One day we'll log on Steem, check our feed, and we'll find out that they made some decision with banning or something else dealing with centralization, the value will tank, and none of us will be able to power down and sell fast enough. And then we'll all be stuck with tokens valued way less than where we want to sell, and just have to hope they go back up, eventually.

Dear @geekpowered

Solid comment buddy

I don't think PAL is going to exit scam.

Even if that would be real option, I don't think they would do it at this stage of their project.

I don't really know how they structured their organization, who has access to what keys, etc.

you're right. unfortunatelly it's really hard to find out about structure of this team :(


it's really hard to find out about structure of this team

It probably would be considered a security risk to give the level of detail that we're need to know to make sure that they are secure. But I hope they have split up access so they need multiple keys for everything, etc.

blogs just don't have a lot of value

I had to mention this somewhere else, just the other day:

One big unwritten rule in the entertainment industry: Never sell yourself short.

Picture yourself strumming a guitar in the park. It's Saturday, busy day, people everywhere. They're dropping change, a few bills, enjoying your performance. Are you counting the money as it rolls in? Are you going to stop mid-song because you've earned your quota? Then you go again the next Saturday. You earn more. Then you go again the next weekend, and earn less. Did you earn too much on the best day? No. You did your thing, and whatever happened, happened.

Would someone who released their first album expect to go platinum? If they did, would they say they earned too much?

I realize many of you out there think you're just throwing random words up onto a screen and have nothing to do with the arts and entertainment industry, but you really should pay attention to the first three letters in the word 'article' and think about what they spell..

I'm honestly not trying to sell myself short, or trying to sell anyone else short.

I just think I have a lot more to offer than I currently am.

The words that I write that have the most value will be code.

But you know that's common, right? We hear it all the time, or different variations of the same thing. People don't see the value in their work, or the others around them. We should probably change that way of thinking. It's much like saying your merchandise is cheap. Even the hotdog salesman on the corner will say his stuff is quality and worth two bucks.

Ah, you know that's true.
We get trapped into thinking what we do doesn't matter so we better go be good little slaves to that corporation over there who's putting in the real work.

Right. And if you don't see value in yourself, others won't. You'd never see a busker on the street earning much if they were playing and talking about how much they suck the entire time... unless it was comedy.

Dear @nonameslefttouse

One big unwritten rule in the entertainment industry: Never sell yourself short.

unfortunatelly I do agree with mentioned sentence: "blogs just don't have a lot of value"

The only problem is that others do sell themself short and market is full of cheap (and sometimes real good) bloggers. So current (and growing) fierce competition in this field will always bring price and value of bloggers down.


So you're knocking down some of the value of your investment. Interesting.

The 10k is coming monthly for a year I believe - not sure where I read/heard this but I think it is the case.

If you were deemed to be rinsing the place, I presume nopal or noleo would step in to cut rewards a little. Have you seen them on your content yet?

Ah okay so a cursory overview of the whitepaper would have made me look like less of a FUDster idiot.

Thanks :D

Yeah, of course, twas the whitepaper ;)

And I agree with Neal, standards on the whole could be improved across all the tribes imo, and your stuff rates above the average.

^ Agree with Neal & Asher on that point. The problem I have is that I can't not vote your post when I see it (same goes for you Asher). The posts are easily some of the highest quality posts on the platform. Is this a problem? Yes. The goal is definitely to get more authors to reach a standard that is at least close to yours ;)

One of my primary goals is to get real authors from other social platforms (completely outside of Steem and even outside of cryptocurrency) to post their high quality articles here. Good content begets good content and I hope the standards as a whole will increase.

You getting tons of tokens in the meantime is actually fair imo because you're on the platform early, you're taking the risk and you're putting in the work when other people who could put in the effort to write great content aren't... yet

Thanks very much :)

As I said, the same goes for all the new tribes if i'm honest, but at least there is more moderation potential. If crap keeps getting wiped then you would hope they would improve, or move on.

I've done a little moderation this week with warnings and light flags, and would like to see more of that from the stakeholders and not just you guys.

I love the actifit project, but those posts have no place here - is it possible to hide a post completely if it comes from the actifit app - the first tag will always be actifit and the json should hold some clues also?

Dear @khaleelkazi

Who is Neal and Asher?

Proof of Moderation Similar to how the Steem blockchain provides 10% of the inflation to witnesses; 5% of annual inflation goes to @msp-finance for administrative tasks and management and to cover network expenses.

Is this it? I didn't actually find it.

p.s. do you have a discord @edicted? Your post gives me a few ideas that I'd like to talk with you about :)


10k every month to each moderator, so in 10 months they will get more than 1M PAL and their stake will be more than 60% of the total stake. now it's 30%

There are 2.1M Palcoin that will go to moderators.

LOL I guess I'm really bad at math...

2100000 / 15 = 140,000 coins per moderator.

30k start + 10k every month
everything is clear :)
1.5M left to be distributed to mods

As long as they don't change the rules mid game I have no problem with continuing to play.
They seem transparent and open enough, so no worries. If they want to change later, such as when SMTs arrive or after a Steem fork, I guess they will try and get community feedback and broader consensus.

Posted using Partiko Android

I think a lot of PAL comes down to how much you trust the mods to use their stake in positive ways. The mods have a long history on the chain and in discord so it's easy enough to judge. However, like anything that involves humans, one could get on their bad side or they could go rogue.
Token sinks are good idea. Afaik, the main sink is the upvote bid bot. However, as long as value flowing into PAL coin exceeds net inflation, the token price might still appreciate.

Dear @eturnerx

I think a lot of PAL comes down to how much you trust the mods to use their stake in positive ways. The mods have a long history on the chain and in discord so it's easy enough to judge

Very true. I joined PAL and invested some of my own money simply because those guys made a good impression on me.

I think it's quite important to see what those mods are doing with received tokens (either received in form of airdrops or rewards). Do they sell it right away or not? That would be a great indicatior.


I don't think any of them are selling and if they did that might put their future drops at risk.

Posted using Partiko Android

Thanks for pointing it out to the masses @edicted. As long as they are transparent about it I am totally fine with it.

At some point people can decide for themselves if the overhead of the token dilution is worth what work the moderators are putting in for the work. If not there will certainly be competition and other ideas that will either fall below the standards in front or meet and maybe even surpass. Competition is a great thing, so is transparency, so is an open and accessible market.

Dear @cryptkeeper17

As long as they are transparent about it I am totally fine with it.

You nailed it. As long as they are transparent. Based on @edicted post I don't really see this transparency, which is quite worrying ....


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