Temporary Workaround for Porn/NSFW content and Suggested Community Guidelines

in steemit •  3 years ago 

NSFW Image Marker

This is a neutral image which you are free to use as the first image for NSFW content. It should keep children and anyone else safe from viewing adult content.

NSFW Issues

At present there are some issues with NSFW content.

  • If the NSFW tag is used first content gets hidden from feeds. As far as I understand this is not deliberate but is a bug.
  • Some people do not wish to see NSFW content in their feeds at all and feel the need to flag it even when it is appropriately tagged.

Until we have a definite platform based means of filtering/toggling this content I propose a workaround and some polite rules to achieve a balance between the needs of both sides of the argument.

If people like these suggestions I can also add them up on steemithelp.net for easy access.


Proposed Guidelines/Practices Until There Is A Platform Based Fix:

Guidelines

As stated these are suggestions that should act as a workaround which should keep both sides of the argument happy. I cannot force anyone to follow them but I am hoping that by abiding by them friction between people will be kept to a minimum:

If you are posting NSFW content:

  1. Use the NSFW tag but do not use it as your first tag (for the reason listed above).
  2. Ensure that your first image is one that does not require the tag. That way you do not cause any offense.
  3. To make things easy I have composed a neutral NSFW header image which everyone can use in their NSFW posts (shown at the top of the post). This is easy to spot so nobody can click on posts without knowing what they are getting. You can use the Imgsafe link here or download the image from SteemImg using this album link.
  4. If you believe your content has been inappopriately flagged please report it in the Steemit Abuse Appeals Channel on RocketChat.

If you don't like NSFW content:

  1. DO NOT flag it unless it is missing the NSFW tag or is otherwise breaking rules by being illegal in some way (use US law as a basis).
  2. Inappropriate flagging is frowned upon and will likely lead to retaliation and damage your reputation.
  3. If you must flag state the reason why and REMOVE the flag once they comply.
  4. Alternatively report the user in the Steemit Abuse Channel on RocketChat.
  5. You can also simply "Mute" the user and you will no longer see their content in your feeds. Just click on their profile name to bring up the option.

Anyway let me know your thoughts on these suggestions and the proposed neutral image to make NSFW content clear. Personally I think this is a good workaround until we get some more filtering features.


Changes to Steemithelp.net

On an unrelated note I have made some navigational changes to Steemithelp.net that should make it easier to add content and navigate. I have broken up the FAQ section into various headings such as "Navigation" etc:

Please have a look and let me know if you prefer this or the old way of having the entire document on a single page. For me it makes it easier to add new sections like this and also to keep each bit up to date. It is also easier in terms of not clogging up the top (main) navigation bar with too many topics.



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Or, for people who accidentally view NSFW content from work: Don't view internet content at work! Do your work at work!

Or, for people who are easily offended by anything at all: STAY OFF THE INTERNET and remain in your safe-space.

When I use the nsfw tag, it does not show any images if the Private Post Display Settings are set to always hide. This is a default setting. As a nsfw poster, I wish there was a posting setting for nsfw images. So you can have suitable photos showing and nsfw images not showing within the same post.

You get what NSFW stands for, right? The whole point of having a "NSFW" designation is so that people don't have to open certain types of material if theyre somewhere its inappropriate, like at work (or around their kids).

If NSFW material is appearing in feeds, it should absolutely be flagged. Threatenting retaliation for flagging patently inappropriate material, or for any type of voting, is crappy, IMO.

You get what NSFW stands for, right? The whole point of having a "NSFW" designation is so that people don't have to open certain types of material if theyre somewhere its inappropriate, like at work (or around their kids).

Thats exactly the point. It does appear in people's feeds and they can't turn it off. Try reading next time.

Very good! I hope they eventually implement the ability to mute tags.

Thanks. I'm sure they will have some sort of solution but this should be an easy workaround for now.

Whaaaaaa?!?!?!?!

Reasonable compromise and use of tags?

But how am I going to into a mindless self-righteous rage if everyone else's posts don't conform to MY idea of what Steemit should be?

Thank for the good timing on this post; I had been contemplating flagging the main whiner on this issue and that would have been a mistake on my own part.

Lol. That is kind of what prompted me on this. I don't see how someone can complain if a post is correctly tagged and they use this kind of image at the top.

No worries, you can still flag if compelled to do so, I’m not against you. but I am against the fact that thumbnail porn images are appearing on the “new” section against my will. And although nsfw is hidden, enough up votes will put that post into the trending page and visible for the entire community.
I hope this posting reaches the porn posters so everyone can subject themselves to the postings they desire and a random porn pic doesn’t show up where children could be watching. Again, you don’t have to agree with my “mindless self-righteous rage” but it is something I feel strongly about and wrote about it just like everyone else who posts what they care about

I am glad that your recognized who I was referring to, but I will not flag you. The use of that flag is a serious thing.

I haven't seen a NSFW thumb pop up from the user we are discussing, although going to her post , which is marked NSFW, shows pics that are porn.

While there are mechanisms for porn producers to mark their own work, and applications that parents can use to shield their kids from "obscenity", at the end of the day, kids are going to look at porn by whatever means their devious little minds can come up with.

The fact that sex sells should not bother you. I don't like that rap music sells, but I don't say anything about it. If folks want to listen to it, it's their own ears.

Perhaps something that Steemit developers can add is a user option to completely hide all NSFW tags from that users' feed.

An answer full of common sense. Hallelujah!

Upvoted & resteemed.

Thank you for your support. It is always appreciated:)

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

Glad to! I've been suggesting a more technical alternative: a special "self-flag" widget that would identify the content as NFSW or Dank or some other kind of "Bad Neighbourhood"-type content. But that would require yet another hardfork, so your workaround is practical in a way that my suggestion isn't.

I think the Steemit team will implement some sort of platform based solution though it is hard to say when.

Yeah: it is hard to say, but the time's gettin' right for it. Thankfully, Steemit is relatively small so far. Like the Nxt community, hard forks can be put through without much...contention.

(cough)Bitcoin(cough)

;)

Yes and it is a part of the platform really.

We will have a problem too with tagging posts of NSFW content.
I'm just wondering if strategically is good in the future to attract this kind of content, and it's good to see proposals of mechanisms of prevention
And when I'm "steeming" I have my 3 year old kid always looking and asking about the pictures and he already reads some stuff ...
I don't know if he understands the Icon NSFW content, but I'll have to explain it to him :)

You can read NSFW for him though.

I don't know, for me porn is a very fake problem. The reason is: sure, you want to manage porn to protect childrens. What about , don't know, antisemitism? It is legal in many country, but not here in Germany, especially if you deny the Shoah.

I find this approach like to focus the "problem of contents" like it was only fo porn, like porn was the most dangerous content in the planet.

Sure, lot of underaged young people died because of porn, so is not harmless like Islamic State propaganda or pro-anorexia websites, which never killed anybody. Also, who cares of nazis doing hate speech?

Joking apart, if steemit has a REAL problem of legit/legal content, porn is the lesser part of it. To focus that much in porn seems to me like a scapegoat: ok, now we make porn safe to filter and police will not put us all in a jail. Aha.

And what about nazism, is propaganda, hate speech, antisemitism, revisionism, and many other contents which are (depending by the country) also forbidden?

I'd like to discuss some discipline about "bad contents" maybe, but focusing that much into porn is, for me, giving the wrong message. Unless you can show me a single person which died because of having seen a blowjob on their pc, or 150 french people killed because of anal sex.

Unless you can show me a single person which died because of having seen a blowjob on their pc, or 150 french people killed because of anal sex.

Lol.

Very nice and polite article :)

Thank you:)

very well written :-) excellent work!

Thanks:)

Right now I'm muting NSFW so my grandkids who get on my device to see how much their work has earned won't click on a naughty picture...I personally know how destructive porn can be to developing minds so I can get pushy and emotional on this issue. I'm trying to let consenting adults do as they wish but these adults who are into porn must understand what they are posting can be harmful if posted in the commons area..

Yes exactly and it can at least temporarily be avoided by ensuring that nobody uses NSFW images as the first image. That way kids cant accidentally see anything graphic.

I am sure the steemit team will sort it out pretty soon though - I just don't think the issue was on their radar before because we didn't really have anything more than say the odd artistic nude painting or photo which there wasn't much of a reaction too.

I saw an occasional NSFW post on my new feed, that's why I've been involved in this discussion. My kids and grandkids have been and will be taught anatomically correct drawing at appropriate ages, they learn all the names from bones, muscle, plumbing and wiring, this helps drawing skills but also takes the fantasy and romance out of nudity when you know the bones, guts, and bile under the lovely skin cover. Nudes aren't the issue, it's the context in which the nudity is displayed that I'm concerned with....hypersexualization is NOT going to infect my grandkids on my watch! We are careful with TV and digital devices, TV is way worse than Steemit ;-)

Yes the SFW stuff is pretty pornographic these days! I think it is worse than just nude photos or what used to be called soft porn like Playboy and things like that. It happens so gradually but just any kind of music video is not something you could watch with your parents or grandparents:)

Exactly, you got it! im so happy you understand what im trying to say, sometimes I feel like I am talking a foreign language in my native land.

I think for people below a certain age it is invisible so they won't understand.

Seems simple, perfectly reasonable and pretty obvious!
Lead on!

Thank you:)

I agree with this. Will definitely implement these things on my future NSFW posts. To be polite and respectful of others who might not want to see adult content. <3

Cool and at least until there is another solution.

Yeah, developers need to make some sort of filtering option for sure.

Yes I'm sure there will be one.

Thank you for your work ! I did the enemy to contaminate Steemit porn , for porn, there are many other sites ! Your proposal , I think , is good , and it can be a temporary solution to the problem . And the possibility of publication in our community materials containing pornography , should be put to a vote of steemit and civilized way to resolve this issue . Thank you !

Glad you like it. It is a temporary compromise.

@thecryptofiend you're the solution guy!
I was checking my steemd.com page and saw that it says I followed the person who somehow caused the "drama" when I actually muted her - just mute that's solution too.

Live and let live

Yes agreed. Nobody is forced to do anything here. About the only thing that I see as a problem is if the photo that is used is NSFW then people can't necessarily avoid seeing it and if we have kids here that is a problem.

@thecryptofiend yes, that's true sighs
I hope the user take that into consideration, too
I did mention that on my comment to that person's introduce yourself post that there are children here. Really minors - I've encountered 13 y/o, 8 and below users -
but - I'll still go back to live and let live -
If the person takes this wise advise then the responsibility shifts to the rest.
If they still click despite that ...

Yes.

Can we also have a SFW image?
That way if my boss catches me reading Steemit at work, I can tell him that is is safe for me to read this at work :-)

By reading it I'm being safe.

Safety always comes first.

So Steemit always comes first! ;-)

Lol. Just use a kitten photo.

Based on this announcement, I had assumed that the NSFW filtering was intentional.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@someguy123/understeem-steemit-without-censorship-nsfw-filter-removed-via-tor

First tag or not, I regard nsfw filtering as necessary on a site that welcomes under-18 users.

That is not an official announcement or source. From what I understand it was a bug which makes sense, since if you don't use it as your first tag the content remains visible. Whilst I agree that we should help I also think it is up to parents to police their own children and not the rest of the world.

Yes, clearly not an official platform announcement, but it seems that NSFW filtering has been well known for several months. It also seems unlikely that a random bug would coincidentally single out just the NSFW tag for filtering. I'd guess it would be more likely that the bug was when they missed filtering it as a secondary tag (which seems consistent with this thread: https://github.com/steemit/steemit.com/issues/15).

As a parent, I see three options for my household: i. Block all of steemit; or ii. Block just some adults-only portion of steemit (not yet technically possible to my knowledge); or iii. trust steemit to show only age appropriate content.

Until now, the adult content has been low profile, so I've been consciously ok with (iii), but it looks like that material wants to become more visible. So now, the ultimate question is, does steemit want to include families as a target demographic or not. Steemit needs to decide the answer to that question before the mature-content saturates too far so that I (and other parents) can decide whether steemit remains in my household or not.

I think it is also a question of whether parents actually supervise their children or not. If you don't supervise your children there are plenty of places they can find unsuitable content. It is also possible that they will be better at subverting any automated measures than you are. Your kids are your responsibility not everyone else's.

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

Perhaps you're familiar with the concept of defense in depth?

Please spare me the lecture on parenting. We're talking about a technology platform here.

Nesting limit. Replying here.

I understand your point and agree with it. But that doesn't mean I turn a blind eye to the risks I'm aware of. I was just curt because it's an obvious point and distracts from the topic at hand. I apologize for being short.

No problem. I sometimes seem the same way. I wasn't talking about you as such I was just saying that when I was a kid I knew how to get round most things lol. It is easy to take things the wrong way though so my apologies if it seemed I was being rude it was not my intention.

Seems like I hit a raw nerve.

I'm not saying there should be no platform based assistance. It is not a replacement for good parenting though and no matter what is put in place some kids will get round it. I know because I was a kid too.

That is my point. If that hurts your feelings I'm sorry.

I think it's FAR more likely that the intention is to keep pornographic content out of the main feeds, with the idea being that people should not be exposed to it against their will. So I believe the bug is that pornographic content becomes visible if the NSFW tag is anything other than primary. They should fix that bug. And for those who wish to view pornographic content, it's perfectly easy to simply go into the NSFW tag.

At the end of the day, I think this is all just a temporary compromise until someone builds a new UI on top of steem that caters to this type of content. That would make the most sense.

Possibly but I don't work for Steemit so I don't know for sure.

At the end of the day, I think this is all just a temporary compromise until someone builds a new UI on top of steem that caters to this type of content. That would make the most sense.

Yes that would be the ideal solution like Steem-XXX or something. I believe it will happen at some point.

glad jag är

Bra!

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

Adult content also needs to compete within its category. For NSWF tagged content the thumbnail is therefore not less important to attract viewers and votes as it is for any other kind of content. I understand that your proposal is meant to be a temporary workaround until a front-end solution is in place and I very much appreciate that we now have a discussion about this important topic. However, the mandatory use of such a generic warning thumbnail might in fact be quite an obstacle for adult content finding it´s place/niche here. So the past few days have shown that there is acceptance for adult content on Steemit. So why not implementing a check-box that allows every user to enable or disable NSFW tagged content in his feeds. I assume this could be implemented within a couple of days.

So why not implementing a check-box that allows every user to enable or disable NSFW tagged content in his feeds. I assume this could be implemented within a couple of days.

I don't know enough about the technical considerations to say. Until it is done this is better than getting flagged repeatedly.

Great image, suggestions, and advice.

I've seen the nsfw tag used, and then a nsfw image as the first image, which does defeat the purpose.

Great job!

Thanks mate. I hope it works and stops any further drama.

If people follow your advice, it should work great.

I do not think anyone will always support everything that goes on or is posted, but to exercise our freedom and enjoy the lack of censorship, we need to find ways to move forward, and this should help us move towards that goal.

Exactly.

Thanks, hope this will avoid unnecessary drama in the future.

Yes me too:)

Fantastic!

Thanks:)

Your Reward for Reading

It made me smile, nice idea.

Thanks I put them in nearly all my non photography posts (particularly the long ones).

I always scroll down first to see if I am properly rewarded and should read your post. Just kidding.

:)

Sounds good to me! All for it.

The only thing that has been bugging me, just a thought (related, but different subject, and sorry to bring this up in so many comments, this is the last time, promise):
What if content is illegal, under US law or in another jurisdiction, eg. somebody posts porn with underage actors? In some jurisdictions, this would expose Steemit to prosecution; having that content in cache can be enough. Simply stating that Steemit is not responsible for posted content would be laughed out of court in many countries.
Having someone check everything before committing to the block chain, or forking every time something illegal has been posted, would be a bit of a hassle.
Just wondering if there is a way to protect Steemit against such an event.

I have suggested following US laws (since Steemit is US based).

That won't stop people from posting anything illegal but ultimately it is up to them to be wary since Steemit cannot itself vet content. Further the community can use the flagging system to hide such content.

Personally I think it is a foolish thing for anyone to do as the blockchain would record it and make it a lot easier to find them.

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

True that. I was just worrying about potential legal risks for Steemit. Saying Steemit is not responsible for posted content isn't an acceptable defence in many jurisdictions when eg. child pornography is concerned, yet Steemit lacks the possibility of erasing the content or links to it from the block chain. But maybe I worry too much 8-).

It is no different than if someone does the same on any other platform. The blockchain is not under their control so other than blocking it on the Steemit website there is nothing further that can be done. People could post similar illegal content on any blockchain. I don't think that the creators can get sued for what other people do.

Try telling that to Kim Dotcom of Megaupload infamy.
He has a site - like Dropbox, people uploaded movies to it, now the US has seized his computers, his funds and is trying to extradite him to face criminal charges.

I'm not a fan of him at all. In fact I quite dislike him. But I also don't believe that he should be extradited for the content others are sharing on his website - against the stated terms and conditions.

If illegal material is found on the blockchain (don't worry so much about child pornography. it's pirated movies and music that will get the attention) then all hell will break loose. And if it can't be removed from the blockchain, the lawyers will insist that the blockchain itself be removed and the technology behind it banned.

Unless of course they can find a way to monetize it.

I agree but there is not much else that Steemit can do.

  ·  3 years ago (edited)

That would depend on the jurisdiction. They could be in some European countries, as both storing and/or making available is as illegal as posting (eg. child porn).
But never mind, @L0k1 has put my mind at rest 8-).

OK.

Simple solution to a real problem that demonstrates grassroots creativity!

Thanks hopefully this keeps both sides happy and we don't have to have any more drama over it.

But if you make enough money at steemit...you dont really need to be at work....because steemit is a job itself...and its the best job i ever had.

Thanks, this is really helpful. Have no intention of posting porn but sometimes as a photographer i want to share fine art nude images. This cover image helps a lot.

There is no need for it anymore now because if you use the NSFW tag it hides the image.

Ok, i'll check it out. If i tag one photo from the bunch, only that one image will be hidden and not the whole post? Or i will just try google and try it. Don't waste your time on a noob. Thanks for letting me know.

No your post will still show up but people will need to click to see the thumbnail that displays.

Oh, cool. Thanks mate.