Talking With @telos About Cheating And Monogamy
Ok, so I was trying to talk to @telos but the comment setup needs a lot of work, so I decided to just make a post so we can continue talking without the jumbled madness.
Basically I said if monogamy is a social construct and a lie then cheating is also a social construct and not really a thing either.
the conversation then went like this:
(insert cut and paste earlier convo)
-{@telos}-
Cheating is being dishonest with your partner. Social construct or not, most can agree it's wrong to be dishonest to a romantic partner. Even monogamous people who have been cheated on often report that the sex itself isn't what bothered them, it was the lies and deceit.
-{me}-
so if you cheat on your significant other and tell them honestly about it even tho they don't like the fact that your doing it, its ok and not cheating because you where honest about it? can you honestly and openly cheat on someone?
-{@telos}-
It's an agreement you reach beforehand and you negotiate the rules so everyone is comfortable. If your partner agrees to it but doesn't like it then she is actually being dishonest with you, and do you really want a relationship with someone who is dishonest with you?
-{me}-
No, but Im talking about a situation where there is a monogamous couple and one person decides after reading a post about how monogamy is a social construct that they will tell the other parson in the relationship their monogamy is a lie and its like chains that hold you down in life and that they are going to have sex with someone else and the other person doesn't like it, after the asshole does it they tell the other and drama happens for a week then cools down then repeat. I have watched a couple friends openly cheat on their wifes and the wifes hate it but the couple never seems to break up, just fight daily. because they are honest about it, is it still cheating?
Now her new response, so I'm going to answer back here and hopefully we can continue the conversation here so its not all jumbled and messy.
It seems like you're stuck on the specifics of the word "dishonesty."
I'm not stuck on it but when you say "Cheating is being dishonest with your partner. Social construct or not" and the other situations I asked about were cheating because there was dishonesty, then of course my next question is going to involve the same situation but fully honest.
You're right, the person in your example is being honest...
that is why I used it after you said: "Cheating is being dishonest with your partner. Social construct or not".`
and he's being emotionally abusive, and he's cheating.'
Emotional abuse is not cheating.
How is it cheating when earlier you said "Cheating is being dishonest with your partner. Social construct or not" and then said "You're right, the person in your example is being honest."?
Relationships are an agreement and she has not agreed to an open relationship, so he is violating the rules of their agreement. That is called cheating.
Ok, new definition.
So if my wife and I agree we will only use dog talk from now on, later she drops a pan on her foot and yells out "FUCK". is that cheating? She didn't yell out woof.
Realistically, all relationships are societal constructs.
LMFAO! Everything is a social construct to you isn't it?
If "all relationships are societal constructs" and then not real things, then how is cheating not a "societal construct" and then also not a real thing?
The problem is that society has come to expect monogamy as a sort of "default" rather than making it an open negotiation.
First off, how is it a problem? What society are you talking about? what makes you think society has expectations on your love/sex life? society could care less what you do. There are many places on the earth where monogamy is not the social norm. How is monogamy not an open negotiation? Could it be that it is not expected, but something people strive for because it actually works and produces stable offspring?
So because the unspoken rules of dating in our society state monogamy, having sex with another person is cheating those unspoken rules.
who enforces this unspoken rule? it is not a rule, it is a definition of what monogamy is. If one of the 2 beings have sex with another, it is not monogamy. has nothing to do with rules it is a choice people/creatures make.
One person can not unilaterally change the terms of an agreement however, so it's still cheating to declare new terms and act under those without the other person's agreement.
lol xD
please refer to my earlier question about the dog sound wife.
Ethical non-monogamy (aka polyamory) is about being open and honest when starting a relationship as well as throughout.
So basically being honest that you are not looking to be and cant be monogamous?
Isn't that how any and all functioning relationships work, monogamous or not?
Under this paradigm you discuss the terms of the relationship before entering into a relationship, and continue to do so during the relationship.
Isn't that how any and all functioning relationships work, monogamous or not?
why not just say example instead of "paradigm"?
It's about agreeing and sticking to the rules of said agreement, and renegotiating them and coming to a new agreement if the rules no longer suit the participants.
Again, Isn't that how any and all functioning relationships work, monogamous or not?
Also, your friends are assholes. :)
Yes I sad that in the example I presented to you.
So we are kind of back where we started, cant wait to hear back from you so we can continue this conversation with without the jumbled mess of the other shit post we were talking on.
ill post you a link in reply to the last comment I got from you.
original post and comments section.
https://steemit.com/relationship/@msgivings/why-he-prefers-the-girl-on-the-side#@telos/re-skeptic-re-telos-re-skeptic-re-thebluepanda-re-msgivings-why-he-prefers-the-girl-on-the-side-20160830t004032032z