The popular tab already lists posts with the most votes - it's just that no-one bothers with that tab, the incentives are always to try to bandwagon on a high-paying post.
A mining bot already exploited this capability, which warranted a reputation fix. (That's why we have the reputation number next to your name)
Mining for PoW allows you to create, what you might consider, a minnow account. They would then use a bot to send a swarm of minnows to upvote a post, showing that it had a lot of support.
This idea won't work. The bots would use it to thwart all the real minnows.
Oh, and before anyone says "well just stop the PoW from being able to create an account". Traditional botnets on the internet already own a gazillion reddit and facebook accounts. That's how they sell those "5,000 instant hits to your website or likes on facebook for $5.00" deals.
then couldn't this factor be implemented into the criteria of the app - somehow factoring in voters' reputation into the filter, so as to only measure the votes coming from reputable users, so as to exclude vote counts from any accounts that might be such exploiters using bots (which would surely have lower reputation ratings)?
Yes, but it becomes splitting hairs. Minnows first starting out typically are only (1) or (2) or (3) reputation. Usually the first thing they do is make 2 or 3 posts.. and then use the rest of their time to complain and get visibly frustrated. Other ones, start copy/pasting existing content as spam reposts.. only to get downvoted.
The whole point of reputation, is that after you have successfully earned the attention of a real, true, quality post, do you get voted up to a (4) or a (5) or a (6)...
An app can't really fix that. Just patience, understanding, not cheating the system, and keep improving writing style can.
I've seen people over time get better at what they produce, only because it took numerous failures, and extensive reading on tips and suggestions before they finally get a viral post.
You can't save all minnows, and neither can apps. This place seems to bring the best and worst out of people at the same time. Sometimes the worst people end up changing their ways and becoming better.
But that's an internal soul searching thing that has to come from someone with the capability of becoming civilized, decent, and creative. An app can't do that..
What you'd end up with, with an app.. is the same group of people all complaining that the app isn't fair... the app didn't work. The app needs to be fixed. The app this, and the app that.. and you'd end up being in the same place where they are right now. :P
Quite simply, the problem really, is the endless scroll which is too many posts, and not enough curators or readers yet. We're flooded with publishers. I'm pasting my article here, even though it is paid out, so people haven't seen it, can now see it:
I absolutely love this idea and concept. I spend many hours browsing through posts and see hundreds of great posts with many user votes but no real traction. It would be a great and easy way for whales to also see some of the content that has been missed. Great post rov-sivante!
@rok-sivante This is a really good idea. There is only one potential problem I can foresee though:
I think the risk of having a separate category is that less people will look at it because they will be going after those attractive whale votes. They might be looking to garner whale attention, or may simply be curious as to what kind of material gets the most money. Either way I suspect human nature will have more people looking at the "original" trending category.
The only way to really know would be to test it though.
Alternatively as someone else suggested you could have some weighting figure into the ranking calculation of the current trending category based on total vote number as opposed to simply being based on money raised.
The original reasoning against this I think was that it would be easily gamed by bots but if you incorporate the reputation system into it you can prevent that.
This method effectively gives you the best of both worlds. As to the exact percentages of the calculation I think that is a matter for people to decide and would likely need some trial and error adjustment.
Anyway am loving your posts. They are always clear, sensible, well reasoned and they do it without taking forever to get to the point (which is something which I wish I could do).
though for those who DO find problem with that, complain, etc - such an app/feature would provide a solution. and as various users who might not know about the app/feature would inevitably complain here & there, others could simply share it with them.
the point isn't to change the entire dynamic and push towards an ideal different than what exists. rather, it's simply to create an option/solution for those who see the current situation as a problem. some will always complain and deem the system dynamics unfair - but in all likelihood, those aren't the people who will be taking the time to learn the rules of the game and invest in creating outstandingly valuable content for the community - so no amount of efforts to level the playing field will EVER satisfy them, as they'll always find fault.
hence, providing solutions to walk the middle-ground...
and re :"...without taking forever to get to the point (which is something which I wish I could do)..."
you can. just a matter of skill development and a shitload of practice writing. ;-)
Oh no , that's not the way I enjoy this platform . I go to trending for a min to screen out what I am interested in and leave to search for topics I personally like. Finding them is my issue . I would like such application
I back any improvements for highlighting great content from minnows. I suggest using less than 1000 SP as the filter as this will give the curators a chance to give the post a little lift before it hits trending.
Excellent idea! You are upvoted and followed.We need to make the system more fair.And the developers need to make it more fair,or they will be overtaken by competing platforms just around the corner like akasha, yours,or synereo.
The whales are only interested in cross voting and upvoting their own posts with their multiple accounts. In a second they are trending and gaining more money. The few "content creators" are also getting richer posting nonsense since we all vote them as soon as we can and give them more money.
The rest, the 99% are getting pennies. I'm calling it like it is.
I'm not going to suggest I know their motivations, just that they may have interests (ahem anarchy ahem) that aren't mine. Anything that helps people find what they are looking for is good for the platform. And any post that makes a boatload of money, well good for them! As long as it isn't 3 in a day saying 'hi I'm here' followed by 'thanks for the money' followed by 'no - really - thanks'.
I'm not saying it's good or bad, it's what it is. If I was a whale or an early bird I would do the same thing, free money forever. I would upvote newcomers who are minor internet stars so they can "spread the word" and keep the motor running.
I don't think that's really sustainable, maybe it is. Just like in real life, I personally don't like the "rich get richer" approach. In Steemit case if you really pay attention, the rich get MEGA RICHER. No dolphin have a single shot of passing an early adopter. An early adopter can post whatever she/he wants, there is a lot of evidence (a single photo from his vacation for example) and get 2k.
Loved the concept of your app ,cant wait to use it cheers :)
The popular tab already lists posts with the most votes - it's just that no-one bothers with that tab, the incentives are always to try to bandwagon on a high-paying post.
A mining bot already exploited this capability, which warranted a reputation fix. (That's why we have the reputation number next to your name)
Mining for PoW allows you to create, what you might consider, a minnow account. They would then use a bot to send a swarm of minnows to upvote a post, showing that it had a lot of support.
This idea won't work. The bots would use it to thwart all the real minnows.
Oh, and before anyone says "well just stop the PoW from being able to create an account". Traditional botnets on the internet already own a gazillion reddit and facebook accounts. That's how they sell those "5,000 instant hits to your website or likes on facebook for $5.00" deals.
then couldn't this factor be implemented into the criteria of the app - somehow factoring in voters' reputation into the filter, so as to only measure the votes coming from reputable users, so as to exclude vote counts from any accounts that might be such exploiters using bots (which would surely have lower reputation ratings)?
Yes, but it becomes splitting hairs. Minnows first starting out typically are only (1) or (2) or (3) reputation. Usually the first thing they do is make 2 or 3 posts.. and then use the rest of their time to complain and get visibly frustrated. Other ones, start copy/pasting existing content as spam reposts.. only to get downvoted.
The whole point of reputation, is that after you have successfully earned the attention of a real, true, quality post, do you get voted up to a (4) or a (5) or a (6)...
An app can't really fix that. Just patience, understanding, not cheating the system, and keep improving writing style can.
I've seen people over time get better at what they produce, only because it took numerous failures, and extensive reading on tips and suggestions before they finally get a viral post.
You can't save all minnows, and neither can apps. This place seems to bring the best and worst out of people at the same time. Sometimes the worst people end up changing their ways and becoming better.
But that's an internal soul searching thing that has to come from someone with the capability of becoming civilized, decent, and creative. An app can't do that..
What you'd end up with, with an app.. is the same group of people all complaining that the app isn't fair... the app didn't work. The app needs to be fixed. The app this, and the app that.. and you'd end up being in the same place where they are right now. :P
Quite simply, the problem really, is the endless scroll which is too many posts, and not enough curators or readers yet. We're flooded with publishers. I'm pasting my article here, even though it is paid out, so people haven't seen it, can now see it:
https://steemit.com/steemit/@intelliguy/this-is-how-steemit-looks-today-steemit-will-change-it-s-look-and-feel-soon
Great idea! A possible improvement (?) would be to make this "trending bis" page open as first page/default.
I absolutely love this idea and concept. I spend many hours browsing through posts and see hundreds of great posts with many user votes but no real traction. It would be a great and easy way for whales to also see some of the content that has been missed. Great post rov-sivante!
@rok-sivante This is a really good idea. There is only one potential problem I can foresee though:
I think the risk of having a separate category is that less people will look at it because they will be going after those attractive whale votes. They might be looking to garner whale attention, or may simply be curious as to what kind of material gets the most money. Either way I suspect human nature will have more people looking at the "original" trending category.
The only way to really know would be to test it though.
Alternatively as someone else suggested you could have some weighting figure into the ranking calculation of the current trending category based on total vote number as opposed to simply being based on money raised.
The original reasoning against this I think was that it would be easily gamed by bots but if you incorporate the reputation system into it you can prevent that.
This method effectively gives you the best of both worlds. As to the exact percentages of the calculation I think that is a matter for people to decide and would likely need some trial and error adjustment.
Anyway am loving your posts. They are always clear, sensible, well reasoned and they do it without taking forever to get to the point (which is something which I wish I could do).
yes. however, that is already the case.
though for those who DO find problem with that, complain, etc - such an app/feature would provide a solution. and as various users who might not know about the app/feature would inevitably complain here & there, others could simply share it with them.
the point isn't to change the entire dynamic and push towards an ideal different than what exists. rather, it's simply to create an option/solution for those who see the current situation as a problem. some will always complain and deem the system dynamics unfair - but in all likelihood, those aren't the people who will be taking the time to learn the rules of the game and invest in creating outstandingly valuable content for the community - so no amount of efforts to level the playing field will EVER satisfy them, as they'll always find fault.
hence, providing solutions to walk the middle-ground...
and re :"...without taking forever to get to the point (which is something which I wish I could do)..."
you can. just a matter of skill development and a shitload of practice writing. ;-)
Oh no , that's not the way I enjoy this platform . I go to trending for a min to screen out what I am interested in and leave to search for topics I personally like. Finding them is my issue . I would like such application
I back any improvements for highlighting great content from minnows. I suggest using less than 1000 SP as the filter as this will give the curators a chance to give the post a little lift before it hits trending.
I'm already making an app that works on a similar principle. Releasing it tomorrow or Tuesday.
cool. looking forward to checking it out...
Are you on steemit.chat?
Keep us posted please @furion
Excellent idea! You are upvoted and followed.We need to make the system more fair.And the developers need to make it more fair,or they will be overtaken by competing platforms just around the corner like akasha, yours,or synereo.
The whales are only interested in cross voting and upvoting their own posts with their multiple accounts. In a second they are trending and gaining more money. The few "content creators" are also getting richer posting nonsense since we all vote them as soon as we can and give them more money.
The rest, the 99% are getting pennies. I'm calling it like it is.
incorrect.
if you're more interested in the actuality of the situation, rather than supporting a biased belief, refer to The Evil Steemit Whale Bot Conspiracy: An Elite Crypto-Agenda For Minnow Domination, OR Sound Investment Strategy For The Community's Success...? for the explanation as to why this theory of yours is invalid.
I'm not going to suggest I know their motivations, just that they may have interests (ahem anarchy ahem) that aren't mine. Anything that helps people find what they are looking for is good for the platform. And any post that makes a boatload of money, well good for them! As long as it isn't 3 in a day saying 'hi I'm here' followed by 'thanks for the money' followed by 'no - really - thanks'.
I'm not saying it's good or bad, it's what it is. If I was a whale or an early bird I would do the same thing, free money forever. I would upvote newcomers who are minor internet stars so they can "spread the word" and keep the motor running.
I don't think that's really sustainable, maybe it is. Just like in real life, I personally don't like the "rich get richer" approach. In Steemit case if you really pay attention, the rich get MEGA RICHER. No dolphin have a single shot of passing an early adopter. An early adopter can post whatever she/he wants, there is a lot of evidence (a single photo from his vacation for example) and get 2k.