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RE: Engineering Update: All Team Meeting, Condenser Split

in #steemit5 years ago

As this is a second question, what about SMTs? What about the previously posted roadmap regarding it? News about them were pretty thin lately.


We are definitely trying to get back to SMTs as fast as possible. It's not at all true that we are giving up on that project. The fact of the matter is that our work on MIRA is just more important now, and it's not possible to know exactly how long that work will take. It could be a week, it could be a month, we just don't know and aren't willing to pretend we do. Once we're done with MIRA, SMTs is high up on the to-do list.

MIRA is not more important that SMT's. As you can see, people are dying to build DAPS but your not giving them the tools. Those same people will leave to EOS or other blockchains. Mira is nice backend crap, but will not attract people to stay and build.

I'm not surprised people don't understand why MIRA is so critical, and that means we should do a better job with education, but MIRA is absolutely necessary prior to SMTs because it is a scaling solution. The cost of running steemd nodes is just too damn high. Period. MIRA will move the blockchain from RAM (expensive) to commodity hardware (cheap). This will dramatically lower the cost of running a node, which most dapp developers do. There's a reason why the only dapps people actually use are on the Steem blockchain, and it's because we solve the hard problems, not the sexy problems. People can waste their time building apps on other platforms, but the moment they get any traction, they'll realize they're screwed because their costs are going to go through the roof. We expect SMTs to dramatically increase the number of transactions happening on our blockchain (which are already extremely high) and so while MIRA will help every node operator (including witnesses) in the short run, it will also be extremely beneficial for ensuring a positive user experience once SMTs launch. It's solutions like MIRA that are actually doing the heavy lifting with respect to maintaining our significant lead over other projects in the space who aren't solving the REAL problems. They aren't capable of understanding what those problems are because they don't have real apps with real users operating in real time like we do.

Thank you @andrarchy ...

"... people don't understand why MIRA is so critical, and that means we should do a better job with education ..."

... for taking the time to educate us on the importance of MIRA. While my relatively small stake doesn't "speak" very loudly, I for one am all in favor of "doing it right the first time" rather than rushing through and dealing with all of the fallout of not ...

One of my favorite sayings (from an old "mature" engineer ...):

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

John Wooden, Legendary Basketball Coach of UCLA

Came here to ask the same thing. Seems Steemit are more focused on saving money than delivering crucial features. What they don't seem to realise is, if they deliver SMT's the price of Steem is going to skyrocket, therefore easing the financial burden they have right now. It's a catch twenty-two.

Appics is a great project and was depending on the SMT's being done this March. Now, they might leave to EOS because of these leaders have small vision and don't know how to set priorities.

Who cares if it's backend node crap is cheaper if all the projects are gone???

Steem will always be faster and lower cost than a general purpose blockchain like EOS. People are free to go to other blockchains, especially if their priority is short term financial gains that sacrifice long term usability. But those projects that do will fail because they will have to pass on their costs to the end user.

Who cares if some dapps lose patience and go to EOS? They'll be back when they see that EOS isn't fit for purpose yet. If they don't come back, I don't care because Steem needs people that have a bit of patience and can plan for the long term. Pretending everything is working, just to get a short term spike in the price is the wrong strategy, there's lots of other cryptos doing that. Perhaps more people should try using EOS, they've had a lot of problems and I'm sure that's not going to change fast. Most of their dapps are junk as well, there's only 1 that I like using, unlike Steem that has many good dapps now.

Well said. Which of their apps do you like using?


Karma is pretty decent UI lately, mobile and supports Video. Getting much use in? AFRICA
Nigeria seems the future to me! 200 MIL smart, hard working people that have no job prospects and will have to devote themselves to becoming blockchain entrepreneurs.

People are free to go to other blockchains, especially if their priority is short term financial gains that sacrifice long term usability.

You should not be in PR, you should be behind a desk punching numbers and never have to talk to people. Your company released dates for SMTs launch sometime last year and shelved the project without an official statement or reason and this is what you have to angry disappointed people?

People trusted and have been waiting on you for over a year and just look at the tone with which you say the nonsense you say. Steemit should own up to it's shortcomings.

they were paying too much for servers to run the websites of all dapps. Cost reduction became prority for the company to surive. They are dramatically reducing cost and making some revenue from ads.

Once they are financially stable, they will work on SMTs.

Cost reduction is great, but you can work on multiple things at once. It seems to be taking them an unusually large amount of time to split out the wallet from the Condenser application let alone other things, which signals to me a couple of things:

  • The development team is lacking needed resources
  • There might be a disparity between skill level, during downsizing they might have let go more experienced (by proxy, more expensive) developers which meant they were left with only a few developers familiar with the more intricate underlying pieces. This means that there are probably pieces of the Steem architecture that realistically, only one or two developers can change
  • The Condenser app is messy, while it is broken up into individual components, it is still tightly coupled and difficult to work with. This seems to be a problem that many React applications share once they go beyond a few components

I think STINC is still in its infancy. From the outset anyone who can see things holistically, if Steemit had delivered on their promise of SMT's, they wouldn't have needed to experiment with advertisements. I can almost guarantee that they would make more than enough revenue from charging fees associated with the creation of a new token.

A great example of the demand is the work @aggroed and his team have done with @steem-eng which just launched its new DEX yesterday. Quite a few tokens have been created already, and while it is a sidechain, it delivers on the promise of creating your own token and it serves most use-cases. They're working on a consensus layer which will only put it further ahead.

The real problem here is: STINC is blind to their own community. There are so many capable and experienced developers who want to help Steem grow. Steemit Inc has more than enough liquid Steem to spend a few hundred thousand to fund community contribution and grow the blockchain. If Steemit let the community handle SMT's with financial incentives, they would probably be done by now.

Thanks for stating some insightful and valid thoughts. I note that @steemalliance is addressing your last point, perhaps differently than you'd recommend, but it is being undertaken.

Steem Engine is pretty cool.

Going forward, the number of dapps is going to increase at unknown, but probably accelerating rates, and poorly tuned nodes would have multiplied that burden obscenely.

It's impossible to state fees from SMTs would be able to provide more substantial funding, as there is practically no experience with such a product. Like Steem, SMTs are novel technology, and difficult to accurately price, or analyze for costs and benefits.

Most of us are convinced (I am) that SMTs are gonna be homerun financially, but if they come out flawed, they're gonna be a nightmare instead. I am encouraged that Stinc hasn't just rushed something out and started flailing away at bugs, flaws, and disappointment, as @drugwars has, for example.

I'm presently almost convinced that in the long run decreasing the expense of running nodes and encouraging dapps to run their own may actually be more critical to the success of Steem than SMTs.

Nodes are the key to decentralization, and if costs can continue to come down while computer capacity continues to increase, eventually extremely robust decentralization will be able to protect the blockchain from threats regardless of their source.

Nothing is more important than security from existential threat.

Lastly, I cannot judge your competence, but things are not always just what they seem to be, and it is often useful to consider the quality of optics with which one regards things. There may be extremely important reasons for specific undertakings being priority over others, and we just can't know without more information than is availed us.


Don't wait for Steemit, Inc to do this. Check out Steem Engine, a DEX marketplace created by the devs who made Steem Monsters.

We are committed to getting back to SMTs as soon as possible, that being said, I think Steem Engine is super cool and people should definitely check it out. Soft Consensus is Steem's secret killer app

SMT's are nowhere in their priorities right now. Steemit Inc is fighting for survival right now. We're not getting even a whiff of SMT's before 2020, and only then if crypto markets skyrocket.

I don't think they're still at the "survival" stage anymore, but that'd just be a guess after recent price changes and since they sell the same amount of coins monthly. About SMT's, @steem-engine lauched recently so people can get their coins going already and when SMT's come around to give those coins blockchain level curation, etc, we'll be waiting with a healthy distribution through markets and the way dapps are already distributing their tokens.

+1 Looking for info on SMTs and how to get an SMT name

I think the answer is above in that they must avoid spreading themselves too thinly which leads to not being able to complete cost related development that will help the underlying sustainability of the protocol and its infrastructure. They may have also been seeing the alternatives to SMT spreading and will likely have to take then into consideration when the time comes.

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