Steemers won't waste their votes on comments … voting power is money, voting on comments doesn’t make money.
I started to comment here and there on Steemit to participate a little more than just writing and voting (original plan) and I got disappointed.
I've noticed there is some very good comments, sometimes even better comments than the post itself. They should get, in a perfect world, the rightfully share of votes they deserve. On a average post merely interesting with a very good point bring by a comment, we shouldn’t see 100$ for the post and 3.21$ for the comment. Why do we see this kind of voting behaviour ?
Well, it’s obvious, 95% of steemers votes on interesting stuff THAT CAN MAKE THEM MONEY (short term view) !
The 5% left are already rich and are more focus on promoting interesting stuff that will increase the overall quality of the platform and … make them more money (long terme view) !
So, what do we do ? There two things we can do :
1. Keep on commenting only when we enjoy the interaction with others. Maybe when we feel is our duty as human being to share that very perspective we have. We knows we won’t have the rightful reward for being 20 minutes writing it down but we don’t care.
2. We can take the advantage of this very post to start a brainstorm in the comment section to elaborate solutions or half solutions that may be read by the dev of Steem. Maybe one day they will be implemented on this amazing platform we all cherish. The brainstorm won’t make you rich, probably won’t even make you win 1$. That said, if the brainstorn is productive, you may be on the way to change the things and in a near future be able to enjoy commenting and also be rewarded accordingly.
What will it be ?
I’ll start the debate in the comment section with this half baked idea :__
Why we don’t have two separated voting power, a big one dedicated to vote on posts (let’s say 80% of the actual one) and a small one dedicated for comments (let’s say 20%) ? That would push users to use their voting power also to vote on comments because if not, this portion of their voting power won’t be used, it would be lost.
It could be 90-10% or 85-15%. This should make the platform even more social and enhance the network effect of its propagation. People like to interact, they like social !
I want comments on the post, on my half baked idea and other ways to do that ! Let’s brainstorm Steemers !
I agree that commenting on posts is just as important. People are starting to focus more on the $$$ money than just in the general idea of the platform. Putting your thoughts and ideas out there and having people comment or argue their point of view.
You are completely right sir ;)
Its more madam but thats ok ;)
My apologies milady ! Glad to see women steemers to balance all these guys ;)
Why we don’t have two separated voting power, a big one dedicated to vote on posts (let’s say 80% of the actual one) and a small one dedicated for comments (let’s say 20%) ? That would push users to use their voting power also to vote on comments because if not, this portion of their voting power won’t be used, it would be lost.
It could be 90-10% or 85-15%. This should make the platform even more social and enhance the network effect of its propagation. People like to interact, they like social !
I'm new to the party, but I'm a "learn-as-you-go" kid. I noticed the same thing when I tried to help out some good posts. I wasn't aware of the worth-decay. It definitely seems there ought to be some incentive to vote comments more and spark interaction.
Edit: Lol, @glitterfart.
I hope this post get through the noise and a real debate is created. I care more about the possibles solutions that the money it can make.
Welcome abord augere, here is my vote, have fun !
I wasted a vote on your comment, because I like the idea of opening up the debate :)
Edit: Also, you did not mention the time-of-post debate as well. We don't want the debate to go wang.
"Go Wang." I'm going to use this in my day-to-day now. I'd upvote you, if it didn't hurt me.
Thanks man ! I hope this can open a conversation with the community and end up with a improvement ;D
You mean the fact that some hours and days are better to post ?
Curation reward (reward for voting) is reduced in the first 30 minutes to make people actually read the post before voting. So, being first to vote is no longer important. Before the reputation system this week, the user WANG would post first comment in every IntroduceYourself post. This was precieved as his "playing the system" on comment posting (it is debatable). His rating is low (because of downvoting) and his comments are mainly excluded from the display due to this.
Good info. See? you earned that vote.
You mean in the first 30 min after its publication ? It make sense for the people reading the "news" section but all the others will continue to click on upvote just based on the title, photo and length of the post.
This does seem like a part of the system that could be gamed. I'm sure with a little effort one could procure peak hours, types of posts during peak hours, even a vague demographic during different times. If you offer the right people the right content at the right time, you win. Though, unless there is some heavy conversation inside a post, I can't see how comments are rewarded enough to encourage good participation.
My solution is far from perfect but it would push people to comment and vote comments just like they write and vote content today.
My idea : Why we don’t have two separated voting power, a big one dedicated to vote on posts (let’s say 80% of the actual one) and a small one dedicated for comments (let’s say 20%) ? That would push users to use their voting power also to vote on comments because if not, this portion of their voting power won’t be used, it would be lost.
One thing I notice is when you vote on a comment sometimes the commenter will check to see who you are and then vote on some of your posts if they like them.
Sneaky bastards ;p
I think the primary problem is a learned behavior problem, not an incentive problem.
The founding document on curation reward, The update
You can look around to find a lot more advice on voting, but the advice, from an economic standpoint, is complete Bullshit. Maybe for Whales and Dolphins things change, but, if you don't have well over 1k SP, the advice is economic nonsense. Here's why.
The advice is to vote for things in the new section 15-30 minutes old that you think will make it to the front page, don't vote too often, 40 votes/day target. I did the math a while back, to compare a bunch of numbers here would take way too long, so you'll just have to trust my generalities, or do the math yourself, the formulas are in the first link in my comment.
I have 15.836 SP right now, that's .0611MVests. I'm decent at picking articles that will make it to the front page, according to the rules I've read about. The most I've ever received from a curation reward is .007 SP, if you take Steem dollars as dollars (and they're close enough) that makes .007*2.3 = $.016.
Better than nothing, but, let's put this into context. My daily average reward (total) is more like .004, or almost $.01.
Little more context: That's voting for 4-5 articles reading probably 20, and investing around an hour and a half of my time. That's a pretty horrible hourly wage, like .005$/hr.
If you believe in the idea behind Steemit and like doing this, that's fine. If you are trying to maximize the value of your time, you should comment, write articles, or better yet, get a temp job.
The links you provide don’t work for me.
Your target should be 20 votes a day (40 cut in half your voting power on each vote)
If you don’t have a lot of free time and not a lot of funds in SP, you shouldn’t spend the your time trying to make money by voting. I agree with you. In the other hand the system offers you a way to increse your funds in SP and then be able to win more by voting. You can write good content. Th emore quality and popular your content the more money you’ll make and the more mopney you’ll get out of voting. You can also buy SP if you beleive strongly in the future of Steem but be careful, investment are risky, never invest what you can’t afford to lose.
I think the structure of the platefrom is really well done. It has benefits for people with time and no money, people with money and no time and people with both or neither.
The only imbalance I see is there is no a lot of incentive to comment, at least much less than vote or write a post.
sorry, I'll just put the links in cut and paste form https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/latest-curation-reward-solution https://steem.io/getinvolved/paid-to-curate/
My point was that it's not about incentives, it's about learned behavior, because maximizing your curation rewards is very close to maximizing nothing.
You should vote for comments because you have more interaction, more connection and more social engagement. It's actually way more inline with your incentives because positive interactions are way better for you than just voting for a piece where your only interest is to get curation rewards.
The above is also a really good reason to comment!
Imagine, during the next months you post a coupe of very successfull post and you earn around 10K $. Would you keep thinking that maximising your voting power is not important ?
You could make 100-150$ / month by voting smartly. Maybe it's not a lot but then your plan would be to keep doing that to grow even more your SP funds. Well, you would be then very careful with every vote you give and you would stop voting on comments because you only have 20 votes with full power / day.
That's what I meant with the imbalance ;p
Ok, but I didn't just buy a thousands of Steem and power up.
Enlightening thank you for the information.
Need more post like this,
Good fortune.
Interesting username @glitterfart XD
It's inspired by my day to day reality ...
You stuff glitter up your bum?
Let's not digress. I want this debate to be constructive ... but to answer your question, no, it's natural.
If that's the case I'd consult a doctor if I were you...
Great comments get rewarded. Usually not with huge amounts of $, but they are a portal to the great (and valuable) blog posts you made as well.
I agree with you. Before I wrote this post I have checked other posts with lots of comments. The great comments are, indeed, rewarded. They are infrequent and doesn't incentivise poeple to communicate. I feel there is a imbalance between voting and writing and the comments. Steem could be even better with more encentive to comment. It would enhance the social aspect of it and help to increase its interest.
that's a forum, the point in a forum is to comment stuff, seriously who care if you get money or not. And to be honest that's the bad part in steemit, (some) people will tend to go where they can make money rather than where they can make a good comment.
Actually, you can also get reward (and get upvoted) from the comments you make, don't really see the point. I mean people should be less concerned by their voting power and stuff...
The point is to raise the more relevant posts to the top. Participation is great, but the best part of the hive mind is having an army filtering out the garbage for the masses. If upvotes are detrimental, discussion will be less frequent, and there will be no filtering.
The filtering of garbage is an absolute priority, I agree. But if would could have a system that doesn't hurt that filtering and incentivise people to comment more (because they also could have rewards accordingly to the time they spend) it would be amazing. There is not a lot of conversations on the comment section because people are spending all their time in the platform trying to make money and there is no money to be made in comments.
Even if there were no disadvantage to upvoting a comment it would be worlds better. Every click on a comment is disadvantageous to me in that I could have pushed something toward the front page, right? That's my understanding. Obviously content creation counts most. Not even quality content. I don't feel like I even have to do the math. Even content that is meh-received has a better return on time investment, which in turn gives you more voting power (==free money.) If the comment voting system were prioritized, better quality content will rise to the top and I, personally, would appreciate much more the creators that were being rewarded.
You got it augere !
Why would anyone vote a comment when they can click on any new post that speaks about steem or cryptocurrencies and probably get more money out of it ?
They would, against their own logic but only rarely when they are really "touched" by the comment. It's clearly not enought in this system !
This is inherent to human being and the way our society is made. The vast majority of us will look at how it affects our economics. You can think is bad, stupid. You can be against it (and you’d be probably right) but you can’t deny it is the reality. Steem has to manage its structure with precision to deal with the general instincs of people.
This is what Blockcahin technology is all about. A system with no corruption and a set of rules defined by the community. These rules exist with no exception. It allows people to behave in a much better way compare to societies where you can bend rules and corrupt people.
If we want more comments and more social interactions, we need rewards. If there is big rewards for posting and voting, we will only have that (sadly).
So after reading the current 34 comments my conclusion and proposal is the following:
Voting Power on posts should be it's own power. Now comes the tricky part:
100% Comment voting power should be worth 50% of the max Post Voting Power. To put this into numbers:
Voting on a post with 100% power worth 1$ would mean if voting on a comment with 100% power is worth 0.50$.
Or a solution where we have 2 separate powers for both Comment and Post voting. That would basically mean just adding a Vote Weight Limiter for comments biased upon the SP.
In my time of being here more than a week I have seen some comments that deserved more up votes than the actual post itself who made huge amounts of money. So a system where both commenter's and poster's can earn the same and have separated Post Voting Power's and Comment Voting Power's biased on SP would be great! It would make people comment/interact more and improve the experience greatly, making the platform more social, like it should be.
very good advice the interaction is an essential part for which steemit was made, we need to keep that since it makes our network much more interesting !!