RE: Steemit: The Anti-Social Network
I set the account up via @steemmonsters. They give a new account when you join their game with the purchase of a starter pack. I hope you do contact @yabapmatt and find out if his signup process produces any different types of accounts than the regular steemit accounts. I think they would want people to use the platform to at least be able to play the game, so if its different then he should know about it. There will be a lot of unhappy people in a week if they did it wrong. But my thinking is they did it right and these are the new Steemit rules for what an account looks like when its set up. And I paid $10 to have the privilege to comment/post an average of once a day. I do hope you dig into this @whatsup, because if we don't get the older veterans to pay attention this place will become a ghost town with these rules.
The process you’ve gone through is different from Steemit.com’s. Steemit’s includes a delegation for active users, with de-delegation in case the account spams or deactivates. Re-Activated accounts are re-delegated.
@ned do you expect apps built on the steem platform to be able to delegate to every new account they create, or send new users to steemit to do the same? The solution of the discounted account creation tokens in HF20 is great, but it's worthless if that is not sufficient to reasonably transact.
I'm not aware of any apps on the platform right now other than Steem Monsters that even create accounts for users let alone delegate additional SP. I think that fact really highlights the problem and I think everyone here would be very interested to hear what the plan / expectation is for Steem apps to onboard new users.
It’s a massive innovation that an account with no holdings may transact (there’s no other chain with functionality like this) and another that many have access to creating these accounts (with Account Credits derived from Resource Credits). More apps can now tap into the account creation process.
As for where we go from here — entitlement to high number of social platform level transactions is very high. So this is a sensitive topic. Case study, though: Reddit limits these transactions quite a bit, much more than instagram, Twitter and FB.
To deal with this we can approach it a few ways:
Posted from my iPhone. Please excuse mistakes, ommisions and grammatical errors.
I definitely agree, and sorry if i glossed over that in my original comment. The RC system and discounted account creation system are a fantastic innovation and you and your team deserve a lot of credit for that.
My point is simply that, if new accounts aren't able to reasonably transact, then it doesn't really matter if more apps can tap into account creation because account creation isn't really what they are after, it's user activity and interaction.
In my opinion, a new account should be able to reasonably transact without additional SP or RC delegation. We, as a community, can decide what exactly constitutes being able to "reasonably transact", but I think most of us can agree that we currently do not meet that definition.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if the top witnesses were to increase the account creation fee, then that would increase the "minimum RCs based on account", right? So if we, as a community, agree that 15 SP worth of RCs allows a new account to "reasonably transact", then I think that's what the account creation fee should be set to.
Assuming that accounts created using a discounted account creation token would also have 15 SP worth of minimum RCs then I think this solves the problem. Apps can now tap into the account creation process using their invested SP and the accounts they create will have enough RC to reasonably transact without additional SP delegation.
Yeap I’m with you — now it’s time to iterate this functionality to greatness. Once delegated RCs are in play, the delegations can be much more liberal as there is no explicit economic loan (SP (voting power) delegation) that can be abused
I don't understand why people don't seem to understand this aspect of RCs. The system will allow the community and Dapps to be much more autonomous and be able to support their communities and, limit abuse heavily.
I haven't been this excited about Steems future since I started. The RC system is potentially brilliant once the delegations and infrastructure are in play. Good job mate.
I hope you are right. The part there that is missing for some people (like me) is the "once the delegations and infrastructure are in play"... Of course we all want to see the place succeed, so the sooner that happens the more we can all row the boat touting the wonders of Steem and Steemit too.
I am not technical but I think there is an order of business here where the RCs had to be implemented first to understand the costs of each transaction. Once that is known, developers all round can guesstimate their needs. I also think it gives time to collect account credits without as much distraction from other factors. I can't say if I am right but there is opportunity here for all.
Wonderful suggestion mate, i am a fan. Good to see you up and running after the kidney stone surgery. Stay safe friend on the otherside.
I would suggest that you increase the account creation fee by a week or two worth of RCs for minimum human function - which won't make much cost difference there - and transfer them to the new account on signup, in much the same way Steem was under the previous system.
That wouldn't enable spammers as much as a full bump to the account's maximum and recharge rate, but would allow it to transact for its first week or two while it earned a few Steem to get it moving on its own.
What is the average number of comments a day a non-spam account can expect to be able to comment? How long will it take a new steemit generated account to recharge their mana? Do we know a SP amount yet that makes comments unlimited? It is hard for me to figure out as all of my features are unlimited at this point and my mana bar does not move regardless of what I do.
This knowledge will help know how much delegation to help new accounts out with.
@ned any idea yet or is it all still reworking itself?
Ok cool... I will explain that to @yabapmatt because I'm sure that's something he would like to know. I'm sure they don't want people signing up through @steemmonsters having this kind of experience.
Thanks for the reply @ned.
hey it better than the time dan responded to me :P
Didn't even respond back :(
lol... I know the feeling for sure ;)
After reading through all the comments and seeing the equivalent of the 15 SP that gets delegated and what that tiny delegation can do, I would like to tell you that it is certainly better than what I just witnessed through the @steemmonster account. But, I also want to say it is still not enough for the new user to have a meaningful experience. (1 post and 10 comments if I read it correctly)
I think that delegating enough RCs to give them 10 comments and a post is better than this experience of doing basically nothing... but you should realize that people are going to bump into those limits quite quickly and the user experience from a newbie perspective will still be a turnoff. I hope you will consider adjusting the numbers higher and then having a quicker "take back" if its not used properly (ie spam or inactivity).
I think 1 post and 10 comments is a great level for a new user. Just fyi, it's all in the opinions. Also if the content creator is talented they could look for a delegation or sponsorship.
Why buy a cow if the milk is free? lol
We will see if you are right, I know I and the people I speak with would disagree strongly. I guess you will tell by the user statistics. I just hope you don't lose too much credibility in the process of finding the right balance. If it were me, I'd err on the side that makes people not notice that there is a restriction... but its not me so I will watch with you and see how the results come out over time.
And the cow and the milk analogy is a good analogy that fits perfectly with the thinking of the veterans of this place I know. The issue I have with it though, is it assumes that Steemit is a premium platform. I would've agreed with you for the last 10 months, but if you restrict commenting (ie free speech) then I think this place goes from a premium site to a place where only a niche of investors use it. To me its a shame, but I hope I wrong!
I agree it is complicated and not all are going to agree on anything.
The risks you mention are real! The balance is we have a HUGE blockchain making it difficult for exchanges, witnesses, etc. to manage. Every transaction has a real world cost that everyone with stake is paying for.
When you say... YOU. You say we. :) I don't have any more influence on these decisions than you do. I just try to understand and help communicate.
:) on the "we" comment... That is one of the nicer things I've heard lately! :P
And I understand the balance is an issue, I hope that whoever is in charge takes the time to read this post's comments. The frustration is real and even if its based on lack of information, it still is a negative overall nonetheless.
And you are doing a great job of helping to understand and communicate. I wish we have some people at the top that were just like you. If you want a job, I can campaign for you to get the role of "Customer Relations"... ;)
But how many minutes, hours, days, weeks a new user has to wait to create new account????. Where is the Velocity?
Many of us are here after a year under the old account creation rules, many more will follow.