Is Steemit Decentralization Backfiring!?..

in steemit •  3 months ago

Today I share my thoughts on Steemit and the decentralization experiment we've all been a part of - Decentralized Social Media. Is it okay that one user (who has a bigger bank account) can ruin everything for all of us? Is this something that's sustainable in its current form? Is there something we can do? I'm asking for your thoughts as it will guide me on the next steps that I take...

@jerrybanfield asking for your advice bud :)

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I think the Grumpycat is not fully understanding his power, and that is frustrating, however I also believe that decentralization and the power Grumpycat has acheieved in this system are still better than Youtube's centralized power, and the best way I can explain my thoughts on this is to provide an analogy.

Steemit's decentralization and the power one user can achieve in that space is in my view akin to a rich oil barren from the early 1900's, who is bossy and maybe dangerous or mean. They can hurt you if you are within their range, within their reach, and observed by them.

Youtube and its centralized authority are more like a corrupt totalitarian government, they might defend you in some instances, they might even pay you in others, but if you stop towing their line, they will stamp you out completely, there is no where within their system that you can exist if they do not choose to let you exist.

So decentralization on Steemit is not perfect, and bullies will get you and me some times, but Youtube is not better, centralization is not better. If you want to tow their line you will get paid on Youtube, but same is true here. If you want to come under the authority of the "oil barren" Grumpycat and play as he insists, then you will be fine. Im not saying thats great, Im just saying that is the way this game can be played, but make no mistakes Youtube is a bigger authority in their pool (Youtube), and if you go there, you are still playing by someone elses rules, only with Youtube, their demonetization can be complete, not partial like Grumpycat does/did.

Hope that helps. Hope you stay!
Upvoted and resteemed.

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Love your idea about creating a service to build up a benevolent counter-force to grumpycat. The thing to remember here is this: grumpycat has way more money invested in Steem and Steemit.com and loses BIG TIME if this were to cause everyone to leave the platform.

Steemit can also be modified so it will take at least 2 or 3 (or more) "whales" to coordinate in order to flag your post and "steal your money".

Well, that just stinks. I mean it smells really bad.

I watched the video, read the comments, resteemed and upvoted. That's about I can do as a real newbie.

For the record, I still think decentralization on this platform is a good thing. You are right, this is a cyber bully, and you are the temporary target. From my perspective it really looks like he's trying to restrict competition to his approved service. That never worked out in the old Western movies from when we were kids...

I believe there is some recourse. I think I saw something about conflict resolution (If you believe you were improperly flagged or down voted...) but I don't remember exactly where I saw it. A cursory search didn't get it, I'll look further and let you know.

I think if it were me I'd try to get this in front of a witness. I haven't been here long enough to have a real recommendation but I have a couple of names: Tim Cliff @timcliff and Mahdi Yari @mahdiyari. Both seem genuinely interested in the platform and how it runs and breathes.

I wish it were more. Don't let them grind you down. We need you here.

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All the witnesses are very aware, but there's nothing they can do except push people to constantly use their voting power to flag his posts and comments. Until a new hard fork changes the way the rewards pool/voting power works, this is the system we live in.

Don't give up man! Steem is still very much experimental, things will get sorted out. The issue you brought up is of great importance.

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Thank you! Can you tell me what you’re doing here on Steemit? You literally helped me so much with your upvote ... basically recovered my money. Would love to hear your channel’s plans for Steemit and what I can do to help that.

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Can you tell me what you’re doing here on Steemit?

Not much, I'm a steem investor. I'm pretty busy IRL so don't really have plans for my channel..I occasionnaly scout for steem content on youtube and that's where I found your video.

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I wonder if you stumbled upon any of my posts yet...

COIN MAN by @pocketechange A Penny may cost a Dollar...

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@peaceandlove brother will you please contact me i am owner of a bot i want to have some thing special if you agree we can go if not still fine ,my contact is akashamar789@gmail.com

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Well thank you. I would be very much interested in speaking with you via steemit.chat at some point on a way to work on the issues with Steemit. I consider myself an investor and would love to see this platform succeed. So if that's something you would consider I do have some ideas that would be beneficial to all new Steemians. Thanks for your quick reply!

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@brandonfrye you are very lucky to have his ( @peaceandlove) attention congrats my friend :)

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Thank you, I agree 100%. It shows that the investors are listening and are very passionate about the success of Steemit. :)

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Oh.. and I also just burned a few coins promoting this post which should raise our value. Not to mention I'm on a plan to buy up all the coins in the near future. :)

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You should have hired me for basically free to you. #militia #botkiller lol

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Why are you supporting bots? I think the only way to do battle with them is in the trenches like me.

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Mysterious lol

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@peaceandlove you seem like a highly invested Steemian, but not very active on the platform.. how about you hire me as your investment manager

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For sure, i think a steem investor doesn't really care with their reputation score ;)
Because if yes, this guy can eazly create a simple post then selfvotes it ;)
Hope the peace will always with ya :D

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I wished that there are more than one of you in this platform who help others. Giving them a boost. A sense of appreciation. Cheers 🥂!

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Please see story me ?? I sent you sbd

Not sure if you've been following the whale wars, but ya, it's bad. Something to note though, grumpycat isn't trying to do it for any noble purposes. In the Steem Dev slack, people talk about how he's just trying to steal more money from the rewards pool, just like haejin, but trying to frame that in some "noble" cause. And it's important to note, he's basically a bot too, just like the one's everyone is using. His "checkthisout" account is actually him making fake posts, and then upvoting his own comments for massive rewards. He's trying to hide the fact that he is taking advantage of the system.

Important point though, this is not about decentralization. This is about incentive structures and game theory. Since the shift to linear rewards systems, the same change that enabled voting bots, it enabled whales to both control what makes it onto the trending page via upvotes, as well as for other whales to flag accounts that they disagree with.

Sorry to hear that he basically "stole" all the SBD you put into those voting bots. Super frustrating.

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I saw the haejin truce but don't get what he's doing wrong. What's up with that battle?

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I suppose it's all open to interpretation, but basically he was writing posts that, while "valuable" didn't seem like they should be getting $400 each. It was just posts about different crypto performance in the market. And he was doing this 5-10 times a day, and making that amount of money each time. And it was all due to 1 whale upvoting him every time. So...as you can imagine this looks pretty bad (no one person really deserves 6% of the entire rewards pool every day). And then him and Bernie Sanders (the account, not the actual person, lol) got into a spat about it...and so on...

Not sure what's going on with the truce. I heard there were some stipulations between him and some witnesses, but it's all beyond me. At the end of the day it's all just a good representation of how the current system is overly beneficial to whales who got in early, and it's hard to properly correct it at the moment.

Don't lose your head over something so small. Just keep your head on straight and keep on moving.

Yeah this sucks.

I'm one of those followers who saw what you were doing and gave it a shot. I mean it didn't get huge traction from my purchase like you did, but I made my bank back so far and thought I followed the rules.

As a new member if Steemit, now I'm sitting here wondering what is allowed and what is not on the platform by the people with the big bank.

I'm never going to use bots again, just in case I don't comply, but think of the people that will just be scared away.

Sorry to hear you went through this Brandon. Just sucks bro cause you have been helping so many people, myself included. Shame that these people feel the need to punish the ones that are putting great content out there.

Isn't that the purpose of Steemit? Great content and community? This seems to go against both.

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Thanks @jongolson, what's crazy is this guy who's basically bullying me has $3 million invested in Steem. I have the amazing power to drop the value of that money in a week's time. That's what I do. I'm a content creator and a marketer. But more importantly, what's especially interesting to notice here is that the people who "should care" about the platform... don't. This makes me question everything. I reached out to @jerrybanfield earlier and got no response. Not a, "Hey, this is what we'll do about that" or "I'm sorry that happened and we're trying to make this platform better". I really want Steemit to be an awesome place for everyone... I really do. But there has to be some accountability from the higher ups. I just wish I would have gotten here a LOT sooner.

I'm not sure what happened to my original reply to this post, but I'll try again... I'm glad you addressed this issue so quickly and yet thoughtfully. I was shocked as I watched it happen, particularly on the same day that Twitter got exposed for "shadow-banning," or censoring views. I really hoped blockchain technology would solve that, but now I see that cyber-bullying and viewpoint discrimination can exist here as well. Please continue to post great content. As I mentioned in my post earlier today (which you read in this post), I'm learning a lot from you. You're providing the kind of content that should be valued by all of us as an investment into the Steemit community. I look forward to hearing about the future plans you mentioned at the end of this video.

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Hey @poimenpost, thanks for your reply and thanks for your comment on my last post. I appreciate your feedback even during all this turmoil. I think this will pass and I can get to the bottom of this with some further understanding of the blockchain (and how much money I need to dump into it) to help people like you and me avoid this type of bullying. I personally believe the answer is setting up a delegation to allow certain whales to provide power (me included) to stop these people. I'm looking at my accounts now and what I can add to the contribution.

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Absolutely!

I don't think steemit really falls under decentralized. It's a company, that means money will always have a way of making the rules for the rest of us. Since there are no mentions of any of this with the @checkthisout or other accounts it seems steem Inc is okay with how it's playing out.

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What really sucks is I wish you were wrong. But you're apparently right.

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Yup, it sucks. I saw my name in Jerry's post, so I headed over for a little support. I just up'ed myself too, so probably babd timing to have my name appear.

This isn't the type of post I created my stamp for and I am sorry it was used on your post. I am sure you are familiar with the type of post that deserve a S*itpost stamp of approval.

I had a feeling that you would make a post shortly after that event. sorry for that. It's stupid.

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It really is. But I'm glad you weighed in on it. How is it that a new person to Steemit gets bullied this early on? Is this part of the initiation? I feel that this platform will fall really soon if this keeps it up? And I can bet some money on that. That's why I'm considering what I'll do about it. What is the answer to this?

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Well, the way that I look at it is that for every grumpy cat out there, there is a shit load of supporters. I feel that people will abuse the system forever, but I don't feel the balance will be broken anytime soon. I feel that as long as we support each other in the right to promote our own stuff that we feel we have worked hard on, there will always be a great opportunity here. Either way, screw it! Other people's disapproval shouldn't dictate your actions..... I saw a really cool video about this a while ago...let me pull it up for you:


As long as we remember that these sorts of things aren't personal, we won't get distracted. I wish you well!

You got a 10.30% upvote from @postpromoter courtesy of @brandonfrye! Want to promote your posts too? Check out the Steem Bot Tracker website for more info. If you would like to support development of @postpromoter and the bot tracker please vote for @yabapmatt for witness!

It's the pitfall of anarchy. happens every time.

Ive writen a lot about how broken steem power is. steem power is trust and being able to buy trust is ludicrous design.

When we turned the page to the 21st Century we also entered the world of decentralization. Decentralization is a concept that values cooperation and not competition. The idea here at Steemit is to contribute, not game the system. The value of Steemit will be directly attributable to the value of the people who utilize it. If Steemit sucks, it's because it's participants suck. Our job as individuals here is to appeal to our higher selves and do our best to be a good steemian. All we have control over is ourselves, so be sure to put your best foot forward.

Thank you @brandonfrye for making a transfer to me for an upvote of 12.32% on this post! Half of your bid goes to @budgets which funds growth projects for Steem like our top 25 posts on Steem! The other half helps holders of Steem power earn about 60% APR on a delegation to me! For help, will you please visit https://jerrybanfield.com/contact/ because I check my discord server daily? To learn more about Steem, will you please use http://steem.guide/ because this URL forwards to my most recently updated complete Steem tutorial?

Sorry, but I actually don't see what the fuzz is all about, not using bots on posts thats older than 3 days.

Sure I use a bot every now and then, but I do it after 1 hour or so, not on the 6th day.

I do however think Grumpy Cat is a bit hypocritical regarding bots, as on that post it has used SEVERAL bots to upvote it, and if it was a any regular minnow user, a post with that many bots used to upvote would get flagged for bot overload.

Edit:
ok now I think i can see where you are going with this, how can 1 user decide he wants to make rules on steemit. Maybe he grumpy will end up being "Bernie'd" by many others.

That's really unfortunate Brandon, sorry to hear that! I imagine it is quite disheartening and confusing, trying to figure out what is and isn't allowed etc.

I'm worried about using bots in case this happens to me.. But I guess our best bet is to get the attention of someone like Jerry and get their attention.

@brandonfrye I do understand your point about decentralization but if you pay attention the marketing line of @steemit when we log in to our accounts is Money Talks, definitely what's happening with you and many others steemians. I was looking also at Bitcoin as another example. The beginning of all crypto downfall really. One of Satoshi Nakamoto primarily principle for the digital crypto BTC was low transaction fees. Look at the stats. January 2017 BTC transaction fees costs US$ 0.32 cents. January 2018 BTC transaction fees costs US$ 32.00 dollars. Low transaction fees with a rise of over 1000% in a single year? Which worker salary has ever increased that amount? I mean decentralization, low transaction fees are all going downhill really. Human nature, just power changing hands. When all crypto enthusiasts massively criticize the Fiat system, crypto are getting to the same path, still all the same. <3

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Thanks man, not sure what your gig is but I appreciate your comment.

Don't get too Steemed up about this (pun intended) seems like the bot providers are starting to change to the 3.5 days. Whilst the cause might be a worthy one, in your case I think it was unjustified, you produce good content and that should be factored in (in my opinion)

There should be a debate on decentralization. Developers & creators of this platform should make rules for this community not the individuals with power, because if they didn't control it this platform will become a war zone between its members. Rules should be announced by the real administrators of this platform. Decentralization should have it's extents otherwise it will create many more problems for this platform/community & especially minnows. Good work
& Best of luck bro ♥

Well, this sucks. The fact that steemit is decentralized is not at all a bad thing. What makes it bad are users like that. I personally have watched almost all of your videos on steemit and I do agree that you put a lot of time and effort in these videos because my small introduction most took me more than an hour to make and I could assume what time you take to put out these great content. Honestly, you're one of the best content producer here in steemit. And I also feel bad that you lost your $230 because of him. Will resteem the post because it deserves more attention. Lets hope that there are no more users like him.

Is it possible that the community can police bad actors like GrumpyCat? He's shaking down users like the Steemit mafia. There should be a cap on maximum power that one user can wield. :-/

Anyway, thank you for providing your awesome videos.

This is bs. @GrumpyCat down vote me for no reason. I use the Bid Bots the same day I make the posts. They are clearly abusing their Steem Power: https://steemit.com/steemit/@dineroconopcion/is-grumpycat-abusing-it-s-steempower I'm telling everyone about it, Steemit is supposed to be Decentralized social platform, but Whales with millions in Steem Power run this place.

Ps: We need more people like you and I that are not afraid to stand up to this kind of BS! Upvoted + Resteemed you!

It sounds like the grumpy cat account is a bot wallet where bot income is stored and then put to use by downvoting competitor bot users?

Thats disappointing.

Please stay. Not cool.
Cant the whales come together to protect quality content creators like yourself? It would be in their and everyones best interest as Steemit adopters.

good boobs, i like u i love u brandon frye

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xThanks man, not sure what your gig is but I appreciate your comment.

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Thanks man, not sure what your gig is but I appreciate your comment.

How people are earning more by writing comments istead of bloggs. is there any strategy to be followed..

Wow, sorry to here about this Brandon. I didn’t even realize downvoting affected the value of posts. This situation brings two ideas to mind.

For one, does this feel like the mafia to anyone else? With powerful enforcers shaking down the little guy for “protection.” Wouldn’t want any “accidents” to take place in your post, now would we?

Second, the way Steem power is acquired seems like it could use some work. Buying influence plays a big part in society and nobody likes it unless they can afford it. As a platform, couldn’t Steem it shift the power to content creators? Steem power should be weighed heavily to content output, number of views, followers, and repeat viewers.

Just a thought on how to actually police this kind of bullying. Do you think temporary nullification of an accounts steam power would be a good punishment? That way the account’s upvote or downvote would be 0 until they behave?

Sorry to hear that you are going through this mess @brandonfrye. Since you've been on here I've noticed you've provided nothing but valuable information along with being an overall solid dude to the community. I am with you in wanting to gain influence here so this type of behavior can be stomped out. We get flagged (unless we have pictures of "ourself"or an avator displaying an attractive female). These people are a problem, they are trying to fix the economy, screwing with the reward pool. In even the most laissez faire capitalist, free markets that is not tolerated. You are right something needs to be done, and I certainly am no fan of centralized, heavy handed oversight. Best of luck here @brandonfrye, let me know if there is anything I can do to help! UPVOTE

Man that sucks. But if you think about it this means that your are doing a good job and getting notice if your posts suck and channel you would not have this issue. I hope I will see you here againg if not I will follow you on Youtube haha have a good weekend

@brandonfrye Steemit should consider adding a block button (if they do not already have one) When someone like you takes their time and energy to put out content, someone with an attitude or just trying to cause trouble should not have the ability to ruin what you build.

success is found in perseverance.

We should post to spread news, ideas and opportunities...earning is just an extra, that might or might not happen...
Investing is always a risk, so I suggest you delegate your steem power, if you want some passive income, and you don't have to fear any flag war...

Whales and miss use of Whale power is a sign of centralization, not decentralization. Right now Steem is not decentralized enough. But i hop this will change in the future.

wow! Thanks for sharing. This and your other stuff is great content. I'll be following you.

@Brandonfrye
The brightness of your Star doesn't have a chance to fully shine, until darkness falls.
Your inate intelligence, and your keen sense (once the initial emotional charge passes,) you will know exactly what to do.
You have the tenacity and smarts to continue here or whereever you decide.
You are such an asset to the Steemit community,
A millionare Bot that hides behind a
Tormented looking cat?...ummm isnt there another adjective to describe such seeming cowardess?
They say envy was the begining of the end of the world.....nnnnaaaa...
Oh well, the challenge is in our faces now and what will be our response?
Let it be a wise one.
Thank you Brandon for sharing so honesty about your take on this strange turn.
I have to see this as a loss-to -gain investment for you and us all to dive real deep.
L

my your big fans.. pleace help me

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I'm gonna hold you to that when all this dust clears. :)

SMH. Can we all just get along and not be a GRUMPY CAT.

friends the people that we are in this network we are aware that it is the power of the vote that inspires us to make the publications and improve it. I consider that each one of us joining their experience we can improve the quality of the publication for that reason we have to support ourselves by voting and follow us I am @ maribelquere97 I will follow you

wow thank you so much for sharing this video! I really never thought of steemit like that. When you said anybody with money can downvote and pretty shut you up that shit hit me. like damn. what if steem it someday comes the new facebook what stops governments the elite and others from controlling this and still hurting peoples idea and options.

Hi I am following to u and your articles are very interesting good going best of luck.I am new to steemit plz help me.

it will be okay man, it sucks but don't get stuck with your head here! Just keep moving!

Hey @brandonfrye, thanks for explaining this. As a brand new Steemian this is very concerning, and i'm hoping the community will be able to help balance this out before really great content creators like yourself start to abandon ship.

ALSO, did you look in detail at the SBD Correction post GrumpyCat's wallet history? Thought the post is less than a dollar, there are thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars worth of bot-like comments from the post author.

I wrote about it here: https://steemit.com/steemit/@mariogiancini/how-what-is-happening-with-steemit

Would love to hear your thoughts on it. Thanks!

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More people than you have noticed that and also that Grumpy Cat has been heavily voting for just 1 person. (at least in the recent past.) That 1 person (who carries no content in many of his posts) has been getting pretty cranky that a few of the whales have noticed and have begun flagging his posts to reduce the income.

I completely agree with you. As a new user your posts have helped me learn SO MUCH since the site is not as easy as most sites. I am ok with people posting "OH GREAT POST THX FOR SHARING" over and over and then getting votes from bots getting flagged but your content is 10/10 and i don't really care if you use upvote bots. To me as a new user bots are almost needed if you want ot succeed in the site since EVERY ONE is using them. The point is are you making good content?

Flags are acceptable over a disagreement on rewards.

Voting bots are super dangerous to the future of this site, plain and simple. What is to stop the future of steemit to be 'pay for exposure'? How can we attract a real user base when people see that its a bot platform with the most mediocre posts gaming the system,on a daily/hourly basis?
Bots are actually against the terms of service, did you realize that?
Everyone just abuses it anyway, and I think it's an awful example to set for newcomers.
I think you are making good content @brandonfrye, and maybe grumpy is being harsh, but disagreement on rewards in not cyberbulling, especially when one is violating the terms of service.

Don't worry man , Keep it up you are doing great and its common hurdles come is the road of success so @brandonfrye keep posting posts "i love your posts" and i am your starting followers maybe you forgot but i remeber your first post :) thanku

I see this type of thing not as decentralization backfiring, but rather as a failure or rather a shortfall in achieving it.

The point of decentralization is that power not be concentrated to individual entities or groups in the first place. That people with resources can arbitrarily purchase undue influence and power, and abuse it to suppress content is completely contrary to the level playing field that decentralization is intended to create.

I guess there are two levels to decentralization in Steemit, First the system level - where the architecture of the network and blockchain, and IPFS, and its implementation prevents hijacking and implements a consensus system to help ensure its evolution is to serve the goals of the platform at large. The second is the social level, where the participation, interaction mechanics and capabilities that the system provides its users cannot be "gamed" or manipulated to override or unduly influence natural consensus of the community at large.

So I think the scenario described here is exactly a failure to implement decentralization, not a consequence of decentralization itself.

As long as power and influence can simply be purchased rather than exclusively earned through community approval, or that influence of one user over others can create extremes in asymmetry to the extent that they enable abuse by individuals or small groups, this sort of thing is going to be a risk and a weakness.

Its very tricky to predict rules and economics that avoid being gamed in unfair or authoritarian ways. A million users is potentially a million minds fixated on goals that a few hundred developers don't intend.

disclaimer: I'm a steemit n00b still - my opinion is based on my general knowledge and I could be misunderstanding about Steemit specifically.

It looks to me so far like Steemit has done well for being this early in its evolution but still has to address these kinds of things and hopefully it will develop over time to do so.

Really interesting!

I’m sorry this happened. I’m new here but your content is some of the best on here. I hope you don’t decide to leave but to help to stand up to make this a better platform for those of us who are new and don’t know quite how this works or even just to stand up to this person so he/she knows they can’t do this and get away with it. Thank you for the content you do put out, the time you spend on it and know it is appreciated. ❤️

I completely agree. I also wrote a blog post about it. https://steemit.com/steemit/@morris0/steemit-s-biggest-problem