@just2random is Leaving Steemit and This is a Real Problem

in steemit •  2 years ago  (edited)

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I saw a post pop up in my feed earlier this week, and it really bothered me. It was from a friend of mine, @just2random, who was notifying his followers that he was hanging up his pens as he termed it. Turning his energies to other areas. The reason for this is, and I’m paraphrasing, is because he just can’t be bothered with Steemit anymore. He’s been working very hard for many, many months to build a profile on Steemit, and at the end of the day the rewards he receives simply do not justify the effort that he puts into his account.

@just2random (J2R from here on) started here not long after I did. It’s fair to say we started from the same point, as even though my account is older than his, I didn’t do much with it for the first few months.

In reality we started our journey together.

I have been far more successful than he has in our short time on the platform however. I have more followers than he does, my posts in general get higher rewards and my reputation is higher than his. I would like to say that my relative success is due to hard work and talent (and I hope on some level that this is true) but if I’m being honest, most of the difference between my experience and his comes down to money. I have bought a lot of Steem and powered up, while J2R has not.



Photo by Noah Grezlak on Unsplash

Influence is Key


When you buy SP you buy influence, and on Steemit influence is king. When you’re sitting on a fat stack of SP you have a lot of options that most other minnows do not. For a start you can upvote your own post (GASP!!! I know you’re not supposed to do this right?) You also find, all of a sudden, that other minnows want to know you. They don’t really want you, but they want your upvote, so they do things like vote for your posts and comment on them as well, in the hope that you will return the favour. So, suddenly you find your following grows.

You can also delegate your SP to other users. You can delegate to bots who will follow you and upvote your posts in return. If your feeling more generous you can delegate to a communal account like @minnowsupportproject or @qurator and once again the votes will flow. I’ve wound back my delegations recently, but there was a point where I could post just about anything I liked and be guaranteed $5 or $6 dollars in votes.

All of these perks come with influence. SP buys you influence and on Steemit influence is king.

For reasons of his own, J2R chose another path, and tried to build his account from scratch. All he had to contribute was hard work, and unfortunately for him and for many users of this platform, hard work just ain’t enough. He posted regularly. He uploaded quality and well researched content, and he went out of his way to interact with other members of this community. He’s pretty much followed the checklist of what one needs to do to be successful on Steemit and, yet he still can’t make this thing work.

So, when I see a blogger like J2R hanging up his pens, I’m not just frustrated that a friend of mine is leaving the platform. I’m also frustrated because @just2random’s experience reflects the experience of most new Steemit users who enter the platform today.

For all the wonderful things about Steemit, the single biggest problem with this platform is that it’s just too hard to use.

I’ll be brutally honest and say I’m getting sick of reading posts from people who have been here for 12 months or more, which tell new users to just knuckle down and work hard to be successful. Let’s be honest, this is just not true. I also find the subtle subtext to these comments which is, “I worked hard to get where I am, so you should work hard too,” to be a little offensive. The arrogance or ignorance, and I haven’t figured out yet which it is, of these people is quite breathtaking.

For some on here, following this formula will undoubtedly lead to success. These people are the 1%, who possess a talent for producing such amazing content that it echoes across the platform and brings success in its own right. For most of us it's harder than that though. The deck is stacked against a new user on this platform, and unless you possess amazing talent, a large bank account or are lucky enough to know a whale or two, then success on Steemit is likely to be elusive.

If We Make It Too Hard We Fail

This poses a real problem because the harder it gets to be successful on Steemit, the less likely people are to come to the platform. We all need new users to come here though, both to enjoy their content, but also to keep the platform growing. If new users stop coming then we all lose in the end.

I wrote a post recently titled:

Steemit is Difficult: The Sooner You Accept This, The Easier it Becomes



Photo by Mitchell Ng Liang an on Unsplash


I stand by the sentiment I expressed in this post. If Steemit was easy, then there would no rewards for doing it. But the state of play currently is that Steemit is not just difficult, it's far too hard for most users to be successful with. Some of this relates to influence and the way in which it is distributed on the platform, and some of it relates to simple functionality. There have been quite a few articles written on this and other platforms, by established bloggers, who have looked at Steemit and been turned away by the lack of usability of the platform.

Why All This Matters

At the end of the day Steemit is a product. It is a product that must compete with other social media platforms in order to be successful. It’s key point of difference is that it rewards people financially in a way that is different, and potentially, although not explicitly, more financially rewarding than other platforms. Steemit also has a significant first mover advantage. This means that it is in a good position compete to maintain its place as the number one block chain based social media platform.

It has almost no competitive advantage however. New block chain solutions are being created every day. There are already other social media platforms based on a block chain model being launched. Whilst in the short term Steemit’s first mover advantage will protect it to an extent from these competitors, over the longer term, if these competitors offer a superior product then users will move from Steemit to its competitors and Steemit will fail. If you don’t believe me google MySpace.

In this context people like J2R really matter. They are the backbone of the platform and if they leave because it’s too hard for them to succeed, then ultimately, we all lose out as the platform will fail.

I have written this post to examine this problem from a number of angles in the hope of generating some discussion on how to address these issues. The original post was 11 pages long, so I’ve broken it up into a few smaller pieces, of which this is the first. They don’t flow as well in multiple parts, but the original post was a monster and I am hopeful they will be more digestible in this format. With luck they will also reach a wider audience. This post serves as an introduction and over the next few days I will upload the rest of the discussion.

With the introduction out of the way, my next post will demonstrate quite conclusively that Steemit is harder than it was, and gets harder almost by the day.

Main Image by Gabriel Matula on Unsplash

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I think more and more people are seeing what you describe... There are many people that contribute a significant amount of effort that I see get frustrated and leave. I think the only way to solve this is for the price of steem to drop again (sub $0.50)... Only then will the people have a chance to gain power relative to the greedy few at the top. (not that there aren't a few good ones, but the vast majority have failed to understand their power is only as good as the system they support)

They will learn the hard way, and I will have no pity on them when the system resets.

Great post!

Its almost like you've read the rest of my series :) At least you get how it works. It feels like its you and me and about three other people who actually get how the Steem Price/SP thing works.....

yes... I understand exactly! I try to tell people its not a bad thing when it drops, but for some reason they can't grasp that its a chance to go back in time (and hopefully take the place of the people that abused their success).

The market cap of STEEM was over $2 billion when I started. I would rather establish my stake at $200 million than $2 billion... and $20 million would be even better.

The people at the top have blown a helluva opportunity in my opinion, but I guess this is a bit like Darwinism. Each mutation gets a little more developed and refined. I myself am super excited to see the plunge occur, because I can't believe the antipathy towards the obvious abuses that even a newbie could see.

My plan is to gather as many people that are legitimately trying to create value here and network them together so that we become a massive force in the future and hopefully have some power to use the system in a way that benefits more than a few.

I will go check out the rest of your series, you are one of the other 4 people that understand it, so I owe you that ;) lol

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I must admit,This comment I'm making due to your Vote value!(Partially yes!)

Ask him not to quit.ask him to use steemit wisely.I personally have purchased SP delegations from minnowbooster and blocktrades that makes a significant difference to myself and the people I upvote..Atleast he might have been posting in other platforms like FB and Twitter without even getting a single penny! If he gets here a cent as reward,thats really valuable as we can't predict the steem value in few years..It may rise high!

Hi @sathyasankar!!

You get a big upvote for being honest :)

haha..Thank you for that..I will cast it back when I get high SP in future.

Fk that is an amazing point!!! I was on the verge of leaving like him too... but im gonna stay and work hard....I had a few good convos on discord on the weekend that boosted me back up and gave me a few new ideas :) .... but what you said..... im posting on other social media to and getting shit all.... so why am i complaining? hahah thank you for that perspective!!!

Keep it up @christinevenus!!!

I don't think it should be easy, but I think the fact that its actually getting harder is something worth talking about.

I am hopeful that curation groups/trails will help rebalance the equation a little as it is very hard to go at it alone here. I know I'd be getting under a dollar per post if it wasn't for TeamAustralia and Steemstem :( I don't think he should feel bad about collecting from Team Australia.

I definitely find it annoying hearing the stories of people saying if you just keep plugging away you will succeed. Some basic math will tell you if you are earning a couple STEEM per week, it's going to take a while to build reputation and SP, and that is assuming you never cash out! Incredibly, I see people earning a couple of cent's per post plugging away for months.

Maybe there is a tipping point at which SP gets you noticeably more influence, but I haven't found it at 800 SP, not sure how much higher !

Getting love from SteemStem is a brick tick in the box all by its self. I want to write some more Stem related posts to try and get some love from that direction. I keep getting distracted by this philosophical stuff though :)

The comments have really brought home how valuable TA is. Lots of people have mentioned how they see accounts that don’t have that kind of support really struggle!

Damn @just2random - we’ll all miss you!

I’ve been thinking about all this a fair bit today @aghunter. It’s kinda hard not to get caught up in the earning aspect of the site, but for me it is really important to be clear about what I really want out of it. I’m not a stand out blogger, but I am enjoying learning from others blogs and videos. I think I would get really frustrated really fast if I had big expectations for my earnings. (These are comments about my personal experience, not about j2r)

I think Steemit is doing pretty well as long as it’s keeping unique and talented bloggers interested. Especially when you throw Dtube and Dlive into the mix. I do get your point thought - j2r was spending a lot of time putting together community minded posts. It would have been great to see him be better rewarded for them.

Looking forward to hearing the rest of your thoughts on the topic though.

Cheers,
Bec.

Hi Bec,

I'm a bit worried that my message is going to get lost by breaking up the original single piece. My question to you is why would a successful and talented blogger from another site come to Steemit? Unless they invest big bucks or massive amounts of time, its really very hard. The barriers to entry are too high at the moment. That's my opinion anyway. We can see if you share it after having read the rest of the series.

I’m not sure, I can only guess. I think It depends a lot on where they are coming from and what they want out of it. Also, yes steem it hard, but I would hazard a guess that other sites are too - even if they aren’t on a blockchain.

How exactly does steem compare to other social media block chains? (When I started looking I only came across one or two. The size of the community drew me to steem, amongst other things). Do competitors have more successful bloggers being on boarded?

You are a good example of a talented blogger who is staying ( I hope). I’m sure your power up has helped, but you are sharing the sort of knowledge that people really want. You have a niche in your knowledge of finances and the way that you share it. I’m not sure that you are getting as much of a ROI of your time as you deserve, but no doubt when the value of steem increases that will make up for it.

I hope I don’t sound like I’m arguing with you. I have a positive outlook on steem, but am also trying to better understand the challenges it faces.

I started to respond and then realised that I was just repeating what the follow articles are going to say 😂😂😂 I’ll let you read them and make up your own mind 😉

Haha ... ok - I'll wait!

Hey @aghunter!
I came up with this idea that might be the answer to some of these problems, something "simple" that might make it a bit more easy and fun for new users...
Please let me know what you think??

https://steemit.com/steemit/@friendly-fenix/proposal-of-features-for-steemit-difficulty-levels

Cheers!

/FF

I think that is one solution that would make it easier to for minnows to get a leg up. I cant see it being implemented though as the powers that be would be disadvantaged by it, so they are unlikely to support it. Politics is still politics, even in a decentralised world!

I don't have a problem with it being hard for minnows, or with the concept of whales receiving good rewards. I do have a problem with the fact its getting harder.

Congratulations @friendly-fenix! You have received a vote as part of @friendly-fenix donation to this project.
I will be able to help more #minnows

I see it happen every day; lots of people are quitting, and they all have the same reason. Who can blame them? We were all seduced by the fact that money could be earned on SteemIt. ‘Get paid for blogging’, that’s what the ads say.
Once you've signed up, you find yourself working hours to write a good post, and then competing with thousands of others, just to get a couple of cents. On top of that, you’ve not only got to jump through a lot of crazy hoops if you want to get a basic understanding of how the platform works, you also have to watch how crappy posts, thrown together in 10 minutes, make it to the top of the trending page, looking like they’re earning hundreds of Dollars (of which the writer paid for, but that’s something you only find out later on).

I completely agree on all the things you say. And it wouldn't be the first time that the thought comes to mind that SteemIt is going to go down because of all of this.

I don’t want that to happen, because I love the community, and I’ve learned so much and grew as a person in these last couple of months here on the platform, but I’m afraid it is inevitable. At one point, a platform like SteemIt will be started, and it will be so much more user-friendly and more fair, that SteemIt won’t be able to compete against it and will die alone.

At one point, a platform like SteemIt will be started, and it will be so much more user-friendly and more fair, that SteemIt won’t be able to compete against it and will die alone.

That is pretty much my fear as well. You almost took the words out of my mouth. I love the community and want to see it thrive. I'm hopeful that trying to stimulate this kind of conversation might be able to influence things. I don't expect the world to change off the back of one post, but even its not being talked about then the issues aren't even on the table

True.
It’s not this one post. I read one by @hetty-rowan yesterday, and a couple of hours ago I ran into a post by @schattenjaeger who was also addressing the problems SteemIt is facing (You can read it here)

Thanks mate. I will check them out!

Totally agree... I am a new user, I've only been on here for a couple of weeks and I found it incredibly difficult to navigate at first and I still don't know or fully understand what is in my wallet and what I should be doing with it. There really needs to be an easy to understand user guide breaking it all down. I have not bought... errrr, ummm... steem, SP... and I have not powered up or down as I know what know it if for, or how or when to do it. It is difficult to get your head around.

Slowly I am working my way around and doing the best I can with my very limited knowledge. It would help to have a friend who knows what they're doing for guidance! The only other problem I find is time... All that aside though... I'm loving it! Everyone seems really nice and supportive on here, it's a really great community. Maybe your friend just needs a break and they'll be back...

He is back!! He sneakily popped out a couple of posts over the weekend.

I think the point you raised is really relevant though and goes to heart of one of my problems with the site. The complete lack of user support is a massive barrier to entry to new users getting started. You really just have to figure it out for yourself. There is a tendency for those who have managed to thrive to take what I would call a purists attitude to this. "I figured it out, so you should too." I have even heard some people express sentiments like, "High barriers to entry mean that only the "right" type of people exist here." Its almost like an IQ test to get in the door. If you cant work it out, then don't come here.

I think there is merit to that point of view, but only to a certain extent. This isn't Facebook and shouldn't be expected to be like Facebook. Its also a platform that needs new users to thrive, so there needs to be a balance in there somewhere.

The issue you raise of time is also really relevant. To be truly successful here you have to commit an enormous amount of time. For a regular guy/gal working a full time job and raising a family, its hard to find that time. If we want people like that to be involved (and I think we do?) then we need to make sure its not too hard for them.

Oh that's great news!! : )
He obviously missed it and maybe he just needs to find a balance in his life to continue using it.

It's sad to hear that there a barrier forming on who is good enough to survive. I would have thought the more the merrier. The better the success of steemit, the better for everyone right. So far I have only come across really positive people with great, supportive attitudes. I certainly hope it stays that way as I find the vibe on here really good!

I've only been here since late January. But almost straight away, I began to suspect the same thing. Observing other accounts, that started at the same time as me, and how they've managed to hit the top of what's trending has solidified these suspicious.

I have a long (and growing) list of people like you and @just2random (and myself), who should be the backbone of the network.

But I'm not sure that we are - or if people like us were, maybe we aren't anymore. Maybe the real backbone is the people who buy in with tens of thousands of dollars worth of SP and SBD, which they then use to purchase their way to the to a high rep and the top of the front page. Unless they are doing it for the sake of vanity, the content is no longer important; it's just a vehicle to generate a return for whoever bankrolled them.

Alternatively, us non-wealth content producers are important, and the Steem ecosystem will collapse without us. People seem to forget that 100,000 minnows potentially bring more value to the network than one single wealthy user.

Iv'e a bunch more random thoughts on this: the balance between proof of stake and proof of brain, ways partially and voluntarily collectivise earnings, what might constitute effective strike action on steemit, etc. But they're all over the shop, so I'll try to get them in some sort of order before posting.

tldr; You aren't the only one thinking about this sort of thing, and how to fix it.

I think its a balance. People who invest large sums of money into the system have a right to earn a good return on their money. If they don't earn it here, they will take it elsewhere and the Steem price is all about supply and demand at the end of the day.

Content creators need to be rewarded appropriately too or else they leave and their content goes with them.

The deck is probably stacked to much in the favour of money at this stage, but how to come up with a better system is the problem. They changed the author/curation reward pool split last year and the amount of curation plunged. So even when attempts are made to solve problems it can have unintended consequences.

Hi @samueldouglas,

I actually think one of the biggest issues with Steemit is not being able o control your feed at all. I think quality people would have better reach to their potential audiences if we could control the tags we prefer to keep up with.

It is still early days for steem though.

I tend to watch specific tags like #philosphy, and get @ginabot ping me when people post using specific words - my feed isn't always useful - this proabably means I should unfollow or mute some people.

That said, many tags have terrible trending content - it's not just the overall trending page.

Yes, this could well improve once we have more people and more diversity. But some of these improvements might need to happen in order to attract those future steemians.

I agree, surely this improvement wouldn't take much?

Oi!!! You two!! Stop stealing the content of my future posts :P

Yeah, this has hit me really hard as well. Not just J2R, but almost everyone I started with has wandered away. J2R had the advantage of #TeamAustralia which my friends in other countries have really struggled without.

I still find it really weird that Steem Inc doesn't upvote posts or try to guide or curate the content on it's own platform... it's delegated a ton of SP out to third-party apps so they can upvote content created on their platforms... but actual blogging, the mainstay of their content gets nothing. All the curation services are just users trying to make a living themselves, and if it wasn't for them, I don't honestly think there would be any users at all.

It's weird, no one really gets paid for posting on Instagram or Facebook, but those platforms have the benefit of a decade of acquiring at least 90% of my friends. I totally get where J2R is coming from... I wouldn't spend 2 hours on a post for Facebook... but I'd spend 2 hours on work that I was paid for. If Steem wants quality content, it needs to do something to encourage it.

Let's be honest, pretty much no one is making money unless they:

a.) Spend money or SP delegation on autovote services
b.) purchase bidbots
c.) have powerful friends
d.) have a network of powerful friends that all vote each other.

None of the above produces quality...

The main thing that keeps me here is the engagement and friendships, but I really would love to make a full time job out of Steemin' it up... and if I was to make that happen, it would need to be by August when my current job gets complicated... but I just don't know if it's viable... for all the reasons J2R mentioned.

Agreed. A lot of the points you raise are going to come up in some of my later articles. The marketing thing confuses me too. STINC posted 13 twitter posts between 1 Dec 2017 and last week when I checked. That's nothing.

I think understand the development side of it a little better, but still agree with you. As best I can tell, their focus is horizontal diversification. The blog platform is up and running so now they are focusing on Dtube, Dlive, DSound etc to broaden the appeal to a wider audience. I agree that blogging is the back bone though and it doesn't get much love.

All the curation services are just users trying to make a living themselves

I've noticed that the people who started these seem to be making large sums of money.

  • Kinda covertly and behind the scenes and not talked much about.
    • Have you seen any posting about how profitable curation groups can be?
      • I don't think I have...

I really would love to make a full time job out of Steemin' it up...

I don't think that statement applies just to you and me 😐

No... but I'd be very curious to find out.

I don't think @curie makes much from it's actual curation process. For starters it's own curie vote isn't worth that much, it's more the curation trail that brings the dollars to authors. It makes about $60-$100 a day in curation... but pays curators a finders fee that would vastly outweigh that. I think curie makes it's money as a witness.

@qurator is a different story though, they charge a subscription fee and require users to delegate to them and upvote them. Their fee is $4 steem per user which probably takes a while for the user to get back in daily $0.03 votes. They're making about $150 a day not including subscription fees. Not sure about the others.

That said... curation isn't easy. You've got to shift through a lot to find the gold.

I wish as you wished, steemit wasn't so hard... Not in terms of navigation and managing all the unknowns (which is already terrifying to some newbies) but that hard work should bring forth some measure of success, shouldn't it?

Like you said, I too tell people I introduce to steemit, work hard and you will make it... I also tell them at the very start, it is not easy, hoping that they are a little more prepared. Yet, end of the day, I have to be truthful to myself, hard work does not alone bring success. I have seen great works still earn a few depressing cents, even after being on the platform for months. Some because they stand by their personal principles of not giving in to paid bots for upvotes (I have seen the most talented, the most hard-working, the most 'sociable' & interactive ones still using bidbots and paid bots to gain sufficient ground) and some not really wanting to go out of their way to be 'sociable' but just wanting to highlight their work (ie. excellent photography, for one) Lots of creative people are laid back and low profile by nature - this works out badly for them.

What would I like to see... is some system in place where hard work will pay off! How? I don't know. And tougher action and policing on plagiarism. Some groups seem to have regulations that posts have to be of a certain length before they can be rewarded, which is good but then instead do they then encourage some to add nonsensical text just to 'make it'? And I don't like that some think long posts are the only great ones, the only way to go.

Ok, I think my ranting has gone on long enough. It started out as a short comment which got out of hand. I look forward to the rest of your posts.

Well said @ackhoo A great poem might only be 50 words so I don't think that length equals quality.

The vision of Steemit as stated in the white paper was to create a system where quality content was rewarded. No system will ever be perfect, but perhaps this one could be a bit better.

I have to agree with you - Steemit is getting harder. It is a product of growth, similar to (but not nearly as bad as) on Fiverrr. The more people there are who participate, the faster your messages scroll down on the list, making it harder for anyone to see your messages and, thus, harder to build an audience.

Buying SteemPower is an important method to positively affect your visibility, reputation and influence, as well as the other techniques you mentioned above (which I have yet to try). I'm curious as to which you think is the single most-effective method...?

I must agree with you that Steemit's devs need to continue to improve on it or it'll end up largely relevant only in a historical context, just like MySpace. I barely posted over the last year after my wife's death and, coming back, I see there's been a facelift, but I don't see any improvement to choosing topics, for example, and I can think of other improvements that could be made so that Steemit has greater value to its users. In the past, I wrote on a couple of issues that I noticed with Steemit, and I can only hope there's been improvements in those areas (although I doubt it).

Honestly, for a platform that still labels itself "beta" after this much time, they don't seem to do too much - or is that just because I've been gone? I guess I'll have to wait and see.

I feel kind of lucky because I started a while back and I got recognition on some good messages (and ignored on other ones), so I didn't have to invest anything other than my talent for writing, such as it is, in SP. I would've also posted a lot of photos except for the theft of my drive containing them.

I'm still trying to figure out where the comprehensive list of topic words is, because the list I found is tiny, without organization, and wholly inadequate.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Hi @reveurgam

Firstly, my condolences on your loss :(

I agree with just about everything you have said above. My understanding of the current focus of the Dev team is on horizontal diversification into other platforms all running off the one blockchain. I would imagine that services like dtube and dlive weren't around when you were here previously. Unfortunately for those of us focused on good old fashioned blogging it means we sit at the back of the queue in terms of improvements.

I think the most effective (if controversial) way to grow your account is through the use of vote bid bots. I get 15-30 views on a normal post, or 100+ is I pay to upvote it. A lot of people don't like this approach, but it is undoubtedly effective.

Thanks, AG. BTW, I think @minnowsupportproject doesn't exist...

I don't think dtube and dlive were "live" yet, but maybe I didn't notice. I was very busy from Aug. '14, when my wife was diagnosed with cancer, as I was the main caregiver and protector during her many hospital stays, until Mar '17 when she died, so a lot went over my head. I was also depressed and developed PTSD.

If you don't mind, I'd appreciate it if you can explain the use of the vote bid bots.

Thanks!

Will you be doing, or have you done a post about how you use these bots?

  • I would like to try that venture, but am a bit gun shy because wouldn't want to catch attention of grumpy cat and probably others I don't even know about.
    • I'm on day 37 and still learning...
      • What bots are safe to use?
      • What bots show the best ROI?

Thanks in advance if you take the time to answer...
BTW Nice post, I look forward to reading your entire series...

I dont want to be pessimistic here but @just2random has only been on the platform about 4 months. If you are going to give up after 4 months then so be it, but giving up this easily is more a reflection of character. To be successful you have to do what successful people do. posting once a day and commenting on your friends posts is what the average person does. To rise above this you need to put in more effort. J2R talks about his posts averaging $2-3 and that is not enough to eat, and hes right. but there are more ways to earn than just your own posts. I have built up a steady following through interacting with others and its the reason I have been successful. Focus on others before focusing on yourself, thats my go to rule. I hope he changes his mind and tries to perservere, there are many ways to be successful on this platform, you just have to find whats best for you

I hope you read my follow on posts in this series. The next one won’t blow your mind, but I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on number 3.

To more directly address your point, I do agree with you to a certain extent. J2R has his own motivations, but I agree that perservence is critical for longer term success.

I also look at it pragmatically though. As someone who has a lot of time and money invested in this platform, the more users who come here, the more successful it’s likely to be. If people are leaving because it’s too hard to get a foot in the (in their opinion at least) then I think that’s worth discussing.

Hey man, it happens to many of my friends as well, who aren’t part of communities like teamaustralia, teammalaysia, sndbox or whatever. New good content doesn’t get recognised and without whale support you won’t earn much at all :/
I also noticed many of your posts receive 1000+ upvotes with about 100+ views. Do you use a trail or a bot?

I think it’s both. I use upvotes to get exposure. I pumped this post to try and get it trending, so that would explain the eyeballs.

I’m also in a communal voting pool, which is bot. Basically we all autovote on each other’s posts. I’m one of the bigger members so I don’t get much out of it rewards wise, but it’s spreads my vote around a lot of smaller accounts.

Its true. SP is king and hard work/commitment is simply not enough on its own. Pretty much anybody that I started steemit with, has given up and this is actually the real big problem like you mentioned.

Do I blame them for leaving? No. Quality content plays a part in it for sure, but being noticed by a whale which will support you consistently is far and few. You could have 10000 followers and still only get a dollar on your post which you spent 10 hours curating.

I'm seeing steemit become more of a bid bot war more so then a platform that rewards solid content. Thats not a good direction imo but people have capitalise on this and moved ten fold faster then people that only rely on producing good content. Maybe we are playing the system wrong? I only recently discovered bid bots which can explain some unnatural growth for some fresh accounts. I just checked out J2R and he does indeed produce good work, I'll surely support him moving forward!

Great comment @gamersclassified

I am pretty ambivalent towards bid bots. In principle I don't think they are good for the system, but the system allows them, so you cant really blame people for using them.

It's all about having a goal and perseverance! And learning from mistakes is fundamental. Because if you see that in a way you don't get positive results, you change it until you reach the objective.

Greetings and a hug my friend @aghunter

It is a sad thing for @just2random to leave the platform after putting in so much effort. I totally understood what you meant about the attraction of SP to bring more success in this platform which is the reality of human nature where more advantages can gain due to greed. How many holy men can we find who just contribute without expecting any returns? My last few articles received lots of positive comments as well as reasonable upvotes. I have never agreed to visit my upvoters' articles or blog but on the background I do visit to curate almost all of their articles to upvote or comments the quality ones. It takes quite a bit of hardwork and I also did purchase SP so that it allows me to upvote more freely even though it may be just a little upvote of appreciation and recognition, generally the members here like it very much. Thanks for really posting the brutal fact here!

Great post, I look forward to the rest.

For me one of the early frustrations is not necessarily the lack of recognition or revenue but the abundance of people on here who just seem to be gaming the system. I'm a little sick of the "hate the game not the player" attitude because it's the players that make the game. I plan on doing a post down the line exploring that idea a little more in depth. I really do appreciate anyone adding quality original content.

I don't even know where to come at that issue from. Using bots makes things worse, but if you don't use bots you're at a massive disadvantage. I'm stuck.

Philosophically I agree with you 100%. Pragmatically though I cant criticise people for "playing the game"

Yeah it's a tricky one. Do you think it's the case that if everyone stopped using bots that would help/fix the problem? Or is it more a case of, even in its early stages, its quite hard to broaden your exposure? A lot of the people I see doing well (I think without bots) had a pre made audience from other platforms so perhaps it is quite tough to build an audience on steemit from scratch without bots.

Maybe it's because people think that posting here should allow them to quit their daily jobs? I don't think it works that way.
Maybe it's just about expectations.
Facebook gives you more? ;)

No one ever said this should be easy. And lets be honest, anyone can quit their day job and do Steemit full time. All you need to do is work the bid bots and you can easily make enough to live off. But when you have a system that constantly increases in difficulty it becomes self defeating. For me its less about the philosophy of whats fair, and more about lets not have a system that is doomed to gradually wither simply because of a coding error. Or maybe coding misjudgement might be fairer.

I've also pondered these similar issues over the last few weeks having only joined the platform recently. Most of my post's upvote weight comes from centerlink/teamaustralia and I maybe have 5-10 organic followers that give me 0-1c upvotes whenever they can be bothered.
I don't really find this to be an issue though, most successful youtubers spent YEARS building up a following then it looked as if they were successful overnight. I think the same ethos applies here.

I'm not sure what the final solution will be for steemit or its upcoming competitors but I keep coming back to the notion of community.

Ultimately I'd like there to be enough painters, writers, fitness buffs and traders on the platform that they can all support each others content within each specific niche.
Team Australia is a starting point but as our numbers increase I'd like to think we could branch off eventually, for this to work we need a lower drop-out rate and more signups!

I agree with this to an extent. But on most other platforms the time you start doesn't effect your overall success, unless you were lucky enough to be one of the very first.

On Steemit however, the difficulty increases daily. So it might be worth your time to join today and grind away to build a profile, but maybe not in 6 months from now. It gets to point where it gets self defeating.

Agreed!

I don't really find this to be an issue though, most successful youtubers spent YEARS building up a following then it looked as if they were successful overnight. I think the same ethos applies here.

... the old "overnight success story" 15 years in the making

I started here late last year, and have been through all psychological 'ups and downs' of steemit.
i.e The work/ rewards dynamic.

I'm lucky - I have lots of time, and don't need to take much out to improve my quality of life (live in Se Asia).

IF I was in the west, living a western economy - I would still be on steemit, but definitely wouldn't be putting the hours into it, as I do now.

A good honest post, mate.

Cheers mate!

I have to say that while much of what you say is true, it is also the underlying problem with Steemit that has caused j2r to bail. We each view the world differently, and success is therefore defined over 7 billion ways.

That being said, most of us have quite similar needs, and have received quite similar information and experiences. Most of us define success quite similarly.

Social primacy, economic gain, masturbatory pleasure... The SP you bought brought you these things, and j2r not buying them kept them from him.

I define my success quite differently, as I also was raised quite differently from most folks, on an island in Alaska. I don't care about money, or need to be widely admired by people. In the woods, money is of little use, and there aren't many people to be admired by.

There is an oligarchic hegemony on Steemit that has the vast majority of Steem, having mostly mined it before Steemit was published, and mining was ended. Were I to define my success by how much of the Steem I possess, I'd be measuring myself against those guys. I don't.

~10% of accounts on Steemit remain active after a year. This reflects the general incapability of folks to attain what they define as success in the oligarchic economy here.

I seek criticism of my ideas, and exposure to new ones. There's plenty of that on Steemit, and I have been successful at those goals. Things could be better, and I want them to be, but I also have expectations that they always can be better, so don't not expect that.

I think Steemit could be a way to change the world. For it to achieve that, it will have to transform radically, and I have no expectations regarding that. I do expect that either Steemit will achieve that, or another platform will.

The world will change, and how we define success will change with it.

Thanks!

I just looked at his profile, and he started the same month I did. He's doing better than I am, but I understand the struggle. The people who got here a year ago enjoyed times when the Steem price was low... like $0.10 low. That means if you got $1 in Steem rewards, you received 10 SP. It's pretty darn easy to grow your account when you're getting rewards like that. Now if you get $1 in Steem rewards, you you .333 SP... and that's off of a $$2.50 post. Even $2.50 is hard to get for a newbie.
I've said it before, I'll say it again... having the price of Steem go up will hurt the economy in the long-run because people will stop creating accounts (or they'll drop accounts) because it's too hard to level up. If all the money higher in the chain is getting spent to boost those higher in the chain, there's nothing trickling down to the base, the foundation, aka the newbies. Newbies leave, and then it's just 100 people who vote for each other. There's almost 0 value in that.

Agree with you, influence in steemit is a king, many members just searh vote for their post.
But i thought we have to run our steemit smartly and heartly.
There are some typical user, investor (just look for SBD), social ( share what they know and what they have, also use steemit as media social), and free user ( use steemit just for fun, and expose themselves).
So, just look in to your heart, what for you join this media social ( steemit ).
I am sorry to hear your friend has left his pen on steemit.
And thank you for sharing the post.
Hopefully new beginner like me, will success in steemit as you are.
I just enjoy my life, and enjoy my steemit

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

My question to you is why would a successful and talented blogger from another site come to Steemit?

  1. When the value of steemit was soaring and the market was soaring the number of signups was soaring. From when I signed up in Dec to 40 days later the number of people on the site went up 50%

  2. Most social networks are paved with the forgotten multitudes that came early, got worn out before the value ever made it. FB, IG, Twitter etc. They came they used it and then when the multitudes came they were already gone. Sometimes we joke that these are hipsters and how they say I was in before it was cool and left when it got too cool. Obviously Steemit isn't to the cool part yet.

  3. When businesses bring money I think that will be big. And why? Because many business HATE the bate and switch scam that FB became. If they see a way they can interact better with their audience, run contests easier, comment better... have more gauranteed interaction they'll come... and they'll invest their money even and perhaps put a premium on influencers over here. It's not a given that this is happen but you have to admit the path for it to happen is very viable on steemit.

  4. In general when news hits and markets soar and a few bigger influencers invest their time and attention even in the face of realization that it's gonna take work to tanslate their audience. Those are a few defining moments that would change things fast.

  5. It's then you have to be ready for big things to happen. Right now we're just playing in a frustrating early adopter land... early adopter sounds cool to those looking back on the past. They don't realize early adopter means playing in a sand box with a few friends waiting for the rest of the world to finally decide to come and play.

  6. I build a following here even though i have vast amounts elsewhere in part as a speculation of this future boom time. It happened in Youtube and Instagram and many other places. Where those places were deserts until they weren't. And as me and my friends lay foundations for projects like @photogames in a community of mere thousands (only hundreds truly active if that) we realize there are hundreds of thousands of photographers if not millions that could one day get the word that this is the place. Even if it's only tens of thousands it's still a bid deal.

  7. Right now we are impressed by followings of 10k or even 1k and we see the impact those followings can have. (or not have) You simply can't have accounts with 1 million followers because there aren't even 1 million users. You can get a following of 1 million on youtube NOW days magnitudes easier now days than even back in 2013 when most of my friends were starting to do Youtube full time. There's just that many more people on youtube. Would you rather be starting in youtube in 2013 or now? My friends would almost completely choose 2013 or before.

  8. There is a mindset that comes with early adopter success... it's this sort of Entrepreneurial spirit that makes them eventually successful.
    You're right they don't just work hard they think smart and they do things different and they keep trying new things until one works.

  9. Mere good videos didn't do the trick they were consistent and it seems like they all eventually found their brake... which came because of the months or years of failures basically took them there. OR they found their road to success pretty quickly.

OK I've talked too much already... Maybe i'll polish this up and do a post at some time if I get some time.
but in short there are MANY reasons why the people will come here... and it's just a fact that half of the people here reading this right now won't be around for when the big boom hits this social media. So maybe they need to change their mindset. This isn't the era of the gold rush. This is the moment right before the gold rush when people should be claiming their deeds to their mines and sharpening their axes to get ready for the gold rush.

I agree with your words. I too written a good content but I didn't have influence so I am still in developing condition

You are right. If you have SD and turn them into steem, you get more influence.
The problem is in finding something that people want to read.

Life is we live and we all live different lives. That's the way things have always been. Don't rock the boat. These are things we hear or say regular when we have a situation we do not know how to change or do not want to take the risk of changing them ourselves?
Being relatively new to the platform, my opinions may be of a novice nature. The things I mention may have been talked about in previous posts and anything I say a repeat of what has been said.

The first thing I see is Steemit needs to have the ability to adapt. After an adaption of any platform upgrade or adjustment, allocated time shold be in place shuold any change have a negative impact. Gettings things right first time is not te best expectation to have. There have been changes in the past to the nyber of posts per 24 hr can be made. So the platform is regulated in some manner.

The second thing I notice is the lack of community in a general sense, personal gain winning out once again over the success of all. Human nature or human programming of mindset. I recognoise not all users of the platform are specifically out to futher themselves with no regard for another. There is much valued content outthere.

There are solutions to any issue situation or problem which people face. With all solutions though, they come with a cost. Who or how will this cost be negated or covered? Someone will lose out here more then others, they will oppose this change.
After an issue is identified and a solution is browsed upon, when a possible solution can be found. Who decides and how is a big decision like so came upon, Voting or a commitee of some kind?
If the vote on this matter was done in the same manner as rewards, If they where the bigest whale within a pod of whales. The vote is decided before any vote is cast. Should the wieght of vote in this circumstance be equal to all or reliant on Steem Power?

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

Its hard to make place but we shouldn't quit. He can make space with little more efforts. And success doesn't come easily. One must not give up.

LOL, do you realize how hollow these words are. You keep earning some cents on your posts for months and then I will repeat your phrase to you. I would love to see your reaction then!😂

These are words of wisdom. I myself have been able to earn very little or i can say its almost negliegable, and u now u know what my reaction is :)
We learn by falls.

If you feel motivated, then that's good!

Congratulations @aghunter!
Your post was mentioned in the Steemit Hit Parade in the following category:

  • Upvotes - Ranked 9 with 1000 upvotes

This series is really straight to the heart of the matter. I look forward to part 3 (I've seen part 2). Thanks for your post.

When you buy SP you buy influence, and on Steemit influence is king. When you’re sitting on a fat stack of SP you have a lot of options that most other minnows do not. For a start you can upvote your own post (GASP!!! I know you’re not supposed to do this right?) You also find, all of a sudden, that other minnows want to know you. They don’t really want you, but they want your upvote, so they do things like vote for your posts and comment on them as well, in the hope that you will return the favour. So, suddenly you find your following grows.

This is a demonstration of an element that amplifies the Pareto distribution. Think of it as "the snowball effect".

It is sad to see two friends start a journey together and one did not find as much success as the other, possibly leading to the end of the Steemit road for Just2random. I could repeat the cliche, “when a door closes, a window opens”, but as you described, life is not a fairy tale. He can chose to have a pity party or he can accept the end of this chapter and start creating the next one. I wish him the best in his future endevours.

Thanks for sharing your Steemit strategy and mini road map of how you found success. You have reaffirmed and opened my mind. I am more inspired than I was before I read your post, and am grateful to have experienced your writing. Thanks so much for sharing your stories.