RE: On Voting Bots
My main concern was the big lazy investors that would delegate to anyone sending them a memo asking for delegation with the promise of good returns while they didn't care two bits what they would vote on or how much they were abusing it for themselves. This is something you don't bring up in your post at all, nor do you bring up the profits bid bot owners make. You say that its great ROI for SP holders yet many of them are powering down...
Large investors not caring is a problem, but that is not the fault of voting bots nor does it mean that paid content promotion services are bad for Steem. I did mention in the post that there are a number of problems with the Steem platform but I don't have time to go into them all. Also, it is a great ROI for SP holders, and not sure what the fact that some of them are powering down has to do with this.
Another thing you seem to miss in your post is that currently buying votes is profitable yes, but to whose expense? Care to mention that part?
You tell me? I'm not sure what you mean by this. Buying votes should not be directly profitable (i.e. you shouldn't be able to buy a vote worth more than you paid), and I think that will go away over time as the market becomes more efficient. That will help solve some of the current problems.
surely rewarding yourself with a post every other day for doing this work does not seem cool, you're already profiting a lot by running the bid bot.
This seems like an unnecessary jab at me and i don't see how it serves any purpose other than to try to make me look bad. I typically post about once a week, (this week was unusual with two posts) and I don't see anything wrong with promoting them. If you have an issue with me or how I use the platform I'm happy to discuss it over PM but I don't think it's constructive to this discussion about the value of voting bots on the platform.
Paid content promotion services create real utility and value for the STEEM token
Right, just like the "promoted" tab did?
Again, not really sure what you're saying here. The promoted tab was poorly implemented and doesn't provide value to anyone.
Not to mention the returns from bid bots are so high that most investors have completely stopped curating because they keep comparing their earnings with others and feel like they are losing out big time. This is of course also due to the unpegged price of SBD.
I agree with this, and my whole point was that these problems are not the fault of the voting bots. It's just simply people trying to maximize their returns which should be expected in any system. If Steem is to succeed it needs to create a system in which the method of maximizing individual returns benefits the system as a whole. @trafalgar addresses this topic often and much better than I ever could.
Being able to both bump your post up into hot/trending while at the same time not losing any value? Wow, almost seems too good to be true, eh? Why doesn't everyone buy votes? Oh wait, yeah cause if everyone did it wouldn't be profitable for everyone
We are on the same page here - it IS too good to be true right now. It's like that because it's a small, inefficient market. The cost of buying votes is increasing, meaning people are paying more than the vote they get is worth, because people are starting to realize the ROI comes from the increased visibility rather than the vote directly. As Steem continues to grow the cost of buying votes will continue to increase which is great all around for everyone. It means better returns for SP holders, more investment into STEEM, and also higher quality content being promoted.
Its early in the morning here so I apologize if I can off aggressive and I might be a bit all over the place but would be nice to continue the discussion. I have a few ideas in mind and planning right now that could possibly improve on this but I don't think current bid bot owners are going to like it very much.
I would love to hear your ideas, and feel free to PM me if you want to discuss in a more real-time manner. I'm all for anything that will improve the Steem platform, regardless of what that means for voting bots.
Overall from your comments though I think you're misunderstanding a big part of what I'm trying to say. The fact that buying votes is currently directly profitable is a big problem, and one I'm working to try to fix. You should have to pay for promotion, and it's quite valuable so it should cost quite a bit. I feel we are getting there slowly but surely and things will only get better as we get there.
If it's such a great ROI when SBD is at around $3 meaning they get 3x more profits from the SBD than why is it worth powering down? Do they not want to keep getting that great ROI? Or is it that they are earning profits so easily that they just use bid bot delegation to leech off more and more value from the platform?
The bid bot creators and the delegators are getting insane profits from a rewardpool that has limited daily supply. So obviously it means they are taking profits from those curating which was the intention of the blockchain in the first place and those who are not buying votes. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the latter would get more profits if the rest of the platform wasn't "promoting" their posts by enriching investors who apparently it doesn't matter if they are powering down or not and the bid bot owners who are making an insane amount of income just by providing this middlemen service.
I actually didn't have you in mind when I said that, I was thinking of buildawhale, but good to know you also do this.
Is trending better implemented? Its not a surprise to most that trending is a piece of shit and mostly newcomer/minnows/followspammers use it. Most users that have spent a few weeks on the platform have realized that if they want to be able to enjoy using the platform in any way they should work on their feed. So yeah, these bid bot promotions in my opinion are as worthless as the promoted tab was.
My opinion is that bid bot owners are earning way too much rewards, adding posts that you vote with your own bots up for finding abusers and adding them to a blacklist should not be something that is rewarded extra, it should be part of your initial reward for running these promotion bots that you keep the platform clean, especially since flagging is not incentivized at all.