On a random curve

in #steem5 years ago (edited)

I used to set myself a target to reach each day and sometimes would stay awake for hours and out out two more posts to reach it. This was both a boon and a hindrance to my system journey because while it got me some stake, people think that it is easy for me to create content so tend to value it less.

That is okay I guess, but it does sometimes feel weird to see low-grade content from highly supported people get well, highly supported. However, I do understand this as well as people support people for the most part, not content.

@eonwarped wrote a little about the curve conversation today and I was thinking, would n2 have worked if there was no mining and each account was starting from zero with only a small amount of starting Steem Power?

It would have incentivized powering up and it would have meant that there wouldn't have been large accounts that controlled distribution as they did in the early days. For many in 2016, the way they built early on was through whale stake and trail stake in tight circles and it was these circles that dictated who would grow and who would not. Perhaps if all started from zero, a different set of curators and contributors would have emerged.

Of course we can't go back but this is why I would be in favour of trialling the convergent curve model now as there is more spread of stake and many of those from the early days, have sold and left steem or do not hold a significant amount. Would this help the smaller accounts grow now that there would be more incentive to curate well?

I read a hypothetical post about a randomised system which might be pretty cool. What if the curve and the curation percentage were on a randomised schedule that would be applied weekly so no one could really know exactly what was the best approach. Some weeks it might be good to selfvote, some weeks penalised, some weeks good to vote early, some weeks not, some weeks good to delegate to bidbots, some weeks a cost. Perhaps over time it could be analyzed and refined to incentive better behaviour models.

I don't think anyone would go for that kind of system but considering how popular dice games are in crypto, it'd be interesting at least. It would definitely throw a bit if a kink in the maximisation plans and if flexible enough to be applied backward a few days, would screwover a lot of the automation.

I wonder if it would benefit Steem in the long run or harm it. Would it improve distribution at least as the maximizers will have less ability to automate and, it would bring in a heavy dose of luck of the draw for all users. Perhaps we could learn something from it that allows for a better future or, Would you play still?

Just a few thoughts before bed.

Taraz
[ a Steem original ]
(from phone in bed)

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We do forget that this is a game, but a game with money involved. I don't think it makes much difference if you are here for the long term and growing is you aim. i just want to see something that is fair for big and small accounts so it is getting the balance right. Like you I have a daily target to achieve and I don't have the followers like you so I still have a maximum of 2 posts daily. The Apps have helped as it gives you a chance to make up the shortages on the shortfalls.

It is hard to have "fair" because it doesn't really exist. People will never be happy with their position because, the grass is always greener.

opps didn't necessarily mean to put you on the top. just liked the idea of getting the balance right.

No problem. Thank you for the vote and I would like to see a balance, but after reading taraz's reply I understand it will be tricky to achieve.

It is hard to balance quickly from this position as there is already so much variation. Would be different from scratch but even then variation in user will create inequality that people will claim is unfair. It is unfair I am not 2 metres tall and can dunk as well. :D

it's not fair that i'm just cool and your not :)

Some people have all the luck.

I saw this discussed elsewhere; perhaps in the comments on vandeberg's post; and I believe it was smooth who said that the problem with randomness at that level is that it can be quietly gamed by the witnesses.

I posted about it today. I hadn't seen that proposal anywhere. It just popped in my head but it's not an idea very difficult to come up with. Witnesses playing games with the randomization algorithm is something that would have to be addressed somehow. First off, the reward distribution algorithm used would have to be shown by the front ends next to the reward. Obviously, if the selection of the algorithm were actually not random it would be forever discoverable on chain - unless of course, all the witnesses colluded. But isn't that a risk even now?

Outside of my paygrade. The quote from Smooth :
I don't have an opinion on the 'random curation' proposal, but in general any proposal for randomness on a blockchain is an extremely difficult proposition. I saw one of the replies mentioned looking at the previous block hash. That works to a point, but isn't entirely safe or fair because the block creator can tinker with the block in ways to change the hash into one that subtly favors themselves or a collaborator and it is very difficult to detect this (particularly on non-PoW chains).

Anyway, I don't rule it out, I just haven't studied it enough to have an opinion at this time. There are some ways to properly address the randomness issue if it is really necessarily and helpful, but they are definitely harder than just looking at a block hash and you should be suspicious of someone who suggests that; they probably don't understand blockchains very well.

Randomness is a genuinely difficult computer science problem. It’s not limited to blockchains to any degree.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Can't trust anyone :D

I wasn't around back in 2016 in Steem. I wasn't even aware that it existed. So those days are clearly gone and it seems like we are on a better path than before. Perhaps 50/50 reward split would be something that would encourage curation more, put some of the bots out of power and let smaller accounts grow faster.

Posted using Partiko Android

Perhaps 50/50 reward split would be something that would encourage curation more, put some of the bots out of power and let smaller accounts grow faster.

Combined with a slight curve and some free downvotes it should make a difference as abuse becomes easier to see and, easier to handle. I think it should balance the platform a little more.

It really is a bummer we must fix mistakes done by the founders at the same time while so much Steem is in the hands of the few.

Posted using Partiko Android

I have only recently discovered that Partiko lets me see who voted on a post. I was surprised to discover that many of the top earners will self vote their content, which automatically translates to a couple dollars. It makes me wonder if I have been doing this wrong.

Starting off, it wouldn’t make much difference. A 100% vote would be lucky to be worth $0.001. I am feeling that at the moment, having leased out the majority of my SP.

Previously, my 100% votes had been as high as $0.12 (or was it $0.012?) each. This is more than some of my posts earn on their own. I have mixed feelings about self voting.

Posted using Partiko iOS

I stopped self voting recently but there is no issue with it as long as you aren't going it 10x a day. 1 or 2 a day is fine but if course, it is your stake so do what you want.

I only post once or twice a day, if at all. Unless comments count as posts. But, I definitely wouldn’t self vote comments.

Posted using Partiko iOS

self-voting comments is almost always ridiculous :)

If we want more investors, it would probably do those participants more harm as it will take more effort to optimize return. However, in a way we are all investors so we always should be aware of the algorithm that “feed us.”. However, I really do not think that was the thought initially with what they wanted to be part of the social or community experience.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Yeah, I don't think it is investor "set and forget" friendly at all but it might be beneficial if it aids distribution and eventually pushes prices up. Various setups could be tested and analyzed and slowly a funnel could close to settle on a decent model.

That randomized schedule would be a cool experiment actually. We should 'test' it with an SMT/SCOT and see what happens - from simple research on doves it shows if they don't know how/when they need to push a button in order to get food they work harder and harder and harder :D Who knows how it would change the Steem Group Behaviour.

I am wondering if an SMT will try it in some way to se if they can make a less gamable system or at least, one that is gamed in a healthy way. Would be interesting to see the mess though :D

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