I thoroughly enjoyed this debate, thanks. Some notes / thoughts from the talk:
Where's the money coming from?
People who value the services on the Steem network. People around the world are putting their time and energy into creating and curating Steem content, and in return are receiving a stake in the blockchain, as well as liquid SD.
What makes Steem secure?
Witnesses + miners signing blocks, forming a consensus on the history of transactions. Users of the Steem platform can use their stake to vote for the witnesses that produce blocks, as well as to hold them accountable.
Was the Steem blockchain hacked?
No, steemit.com was hacked, not the blockchain itself. The hacks have been caused by typical vectors such as phishing and XSS on steemit.com.
Is Steemit tricking people into locking up value?
I don't think so. Maybe some people that haven't done due diligence on the projects they invest their time and capital into. As Blake mentioned, lot of people understand what they are doing when they power up their SP. The SP vesting structure gives investors a chance to convert their wealth into influence on Steemit.
Do miners get paid in Steem or Steem Power?
Miners get paid in SP. I believe for the initial month, miners received tradable Steem.
Why are so many women coming to Steemit compared to other cryptocurrency?
Steemit attracts a lot of diversity in terms of gender and race, but why? I think a good reason is usability and opportunity. Also the fact that the discussion is what you make it. Put your content out on the Steemit market and see whos attention it attracts. The internet is universal... and humans universally know when an opportunity feels right. Steem feels right to me. Also, women are pretty good at getting attention. ;-) This is really valuable in an attention economy.
Is Steem a blockchain?
The Steem network is an open, distributed ledger. This is valuable to give all players on the network confidence in the history of transactions, and the ability to see what actions other participants are taking. The interplay of digital assets on this blockchain are what provides Steem its "stickiness." Open source blockchains allow the Steem blockchain to be audited, consensus of the chain's history to be formed, allows the platform to be developed upon via 3rd party services, allow each bearer of private keys to have the sole right to their wallet's balances, enables the SBD peg, and probably many more benefits that I've missed.
Incredible summary! Im sure that many people will make a good use out of your advices, it is a huge amount of knowledge about steem tech.
Thanks to the people trusting steemit network- we may see money involved here , all that could not be possible if we would not make SBD a coin. We can also speculate about SBD what is another great tool.
Im using steemit.com for about 2-3 weeks now, and im still amazed because this page offers us so many possibilities that i just cannot believe it. Anyway i think that everyone see, that it works great haha :)
Mining SBD may be a great idea too because we can invest it later into our STEEMPOWER what may ( and i think it will ) turn up as a great investment.
Steemit is just a blockbreaker , it is a new idea , a precursor.
Content creation isn't the only service provided by the Steem blockchain... it pretty much encapsulates the same benefits as BTC (value transfer) with the addition of a relatively stable digital asset (SD), with content creation as a means of distribution.
That part kind of blew my mind as well when he interrupted you to say you can't answer the question. I must say, @blakemiles84, your level of patience and peaceful interaction was quite impressive. The accusations being made against you and everyone who signed up for Steemit were quite outlandish.
Hey, @smooth, @berniesanders, and others with influence who voted this up to $2,800+, could you also vote up Blake's post? Seems very odd to me that he's the one who (IMO) did such a great job in this debate but who's post is only sitting at around $90 right now. I get the importance of voting up the live feed as it's happening, and I'm all about that, but I also think the participant in the actual debate should get a nice reward for representing the community so well.
@satishifpv I was also confused here and had to google "Blake Miles Steemit" to find his account (sorry Blake). Would have been nice to see some love spread to promote his blog at least when originally posting this one.
Great video by the way but something is werid here. Aren't the post supposed to payout after 12hrs... Well at 12hrs this post was worth over 3,000$ and now it still hasn't paid out and is only worth 100$....
There was proof of work before delegated proof of stake... only slightly different than hybrid proof of work for initial distribution and then proof of stake later in that witnesses sign blocks to allow for higher throughput to have better scalability.
The claim that this is not a blockchain is like saying proof of stake is not a blockchain or that bitshares is not based on a blockchain.
Technically, there is a random proof of work miner, so it's actually one of the only, or the only, hybrid systems that does a type of proof of stake while having some mechanism for proof of work.
They are clearly interested on SteemIt but they are making it in a way all users can benefit from knowing the truth, the only truth and nothing but the truth about Steem. :)
This is definitely a blockchain. My husband has been mining and adding to the blockchain, just like you would with any cryptocurrency. This just has the addition of having a content creation component. I think the hybrid mission of Steemit could actually make a difference in the world. Take a look at my husband's article about it. And I'm still hoping to see your p vs np one! :)
I don't understand what is the point... let's give a bit of trust... we have been "fucked up" from hashocean... I think all of us... for the first time... there is something NICE... everyone is attacking??? Cmon man... lets give them a chance!!! Maybe in a future we will tell you... you were absolutely right.... but till that moment let's trust them! ok???
Best regards @webdeals
The debate is whether the steem platform is a great way to reward content creators.
My understanding of one of Tone’s main issues is that he thinks that there is no real value being attributed to the users. He believes this because the market cap and steempower value is being determined by a constructed limited market supply due to the system discouraging holding steem and incentivizing powering down. He believes that this reduced tradeable supply is significantly controlled by the developers who can manipulate the market and create artificial demand to keep the price high. He then goes on to say that even if you are not good at creating content you will be able to double your steempower every year due to inflation which to him is a ponzi. (he is wrong you steempower does not go up 100%)
My thoughts, since people have influence and power the potential for corruption exists. But there is also potential to use that influence to build larger communities which will result in much larger benefits. I agree it is difficult to understand the complexity of the system, but it is not difficult to use. This platform absolutely makes it easier and more likely for people to be rewarded for their content. I am rewarded by it providing the motivation to create. There is something beautiful and special about a system that can take someone who is shy and afraid to get on camera and convince them to make that jump and start creating content (cheers to mughat for sharing this comment with me). I am using the steemit platform to create content because I share the long term vision of building a new community that can benefit in ways that no previous online community has. For 10 years I have wanted to start a video podcast. Now because of steem, I have started one https://steemit.com/@steemnation
Jza, yes I have bought some steempower, so far only one BTC worth. I am still trying to understand the back end of the platform better, which is why I love seeing debates like this. As far as expected rewards, I don't have any short term expectations. I understand it will be difficult to get noticed here if you do not show up with a following. I am fine with taking the time needed to grow an audience . That's how it would work anywhere else, so I don't expect it to be any different here. And besides, if me and my friends are unable to build an audience, maybe we just aren't good enough at creating content yet. We can't blame the platform for not providing rewards. It's a learning process, and a lot of fun.
Tone should not be talking crypto, let alone Steem. Every point he brought up was an assumption. He knows nothing about the coin or basics of blockchain tech. He should do his research before publicly speaking.
Blake wins by logic alone.
Tone Vays should join Steemit then he can have a more informed insight into how the system works. Someone should tell him it's free to join and he doesn't need to spend any BTC/ USD.... if STEEM/ Steemit is a ponzi, it's the worse ponzi in the world!
He may even get rewarded for his scepticism (however misguided).
The only people that can potentially lose out are those that buy STEEM, speculating on its future value (or just to have more influence on the platform). It's high risk and high reward for people that go down this route. However this is the same for every cryptocurrency being traded on Exchanges. If STEEM is a ponzi because of this then all cryptos are ponzis!
The difference with STEEM/ Steemit is it has a real life use case (people find value reading/ consuming the content of others every day) and people do not need money or technical knowledge to join the eco-system. It's revolutionary in it's simplicity in that regard.
Turn everything around and ask the same questions of bitcoin. What happens when people stop buying bitcoin with fiat? It's a joke to consider miners churning out arbitrary computations the creation of some "real value" and disregard the value that the entire steem community has identified in users' writing.
What's more valuable, content that people enjoy or wasted cpu cycles?
I think there were definitely valid points on both sides, both guys were pretty good debaters. Definitely worth a watch for new people. I think its important to have both sides in this debate as criticism is good and healthy for creating a better system.
Interesting talk. Since it got to theTOP 10 Trending posts on Steemit I've added your article to the Flipboard Steemit Trending Magazine for everyone to check it out later.
I thoroughly enjoyed this debate, thanks. Some notes / thoughts from the talk:
Where's the money coming from?
People who value the services on the Steem network. People around the world are putting their time and energy into creating and curating Steem content, and in return are receiving a stake in the blockchain, as well as liquid SD.
What makes Steem secure?
Witnesses + miners signing blocks, forming a consensus on the history of transactions. Users of the Steem platform can use their stake to vote for the witnesses that produce blocks, as well as to hold them accountable.
Was the Steem blockchain hacked?
No, steemit.com was hacked, not the blockchain itself. The hacks have been caused by typical vectors such as phishing and XSS on steemit.com.
Is Steemit tricking people into locking up value?
I don't think so. Maybe some people that haven't done due diligence on the projects they invest their time and capital into. As Blake mentioned, lot of people understand what they are doing when they power up their SP. The SP vesting structure gives investors a chance to convert their wealth into influence on Steemit.
Do miners get paid in Steem or Steem Power?
Miners get paid in SP. I believe for the initial month, miners received tradable Steem.
Why are so many women coming to Steemit compared to other cryptocurrency?
Steemit attracts a lot of diversity in terms of gender and race, but why? I think a good reason is usability and opportunity. Also the fact that the discussion is what you make it. Put your content out on the Steemit market and see whos attention it attracts. The internet is universal... and humans universally know when an opportunity feels right. Steem feels right to me. Also, women are pretty good at getting attention. ;-) This is really valuable in an attention economy.
Is Steem a blockchain?
The Steem network is an open, distributed ledger. This is valuable to give all players on the network confidence in the history of transactions, and the ability to see what actions other participants are taking. The interplay of digital assets on this blockchain are what provides Steem its "stickiness." Open source blockchains allow the Steem blockchain to be audited, consensus of the chain's history to be formed, allows the platform to be developed upon via 3rd party services, allow each bearer of private keys to have the sole right to their wallet's balances, enables the SBD peg, and probably many more benefits that I've missed.
Great summary
Incredible summary! Im sure that many people will make a good use out of your advices, it is a huge amount of knowledge about steem tech.
Thanks to the people trusting steemit network- we may see money involved here , all that could not be possible if we would not make SBD a coin. We can also speculate about SBD what is another great tool.
Im using steemit.com for about 2-3 weeks now, and im still amazed because this page offers us so many possibilities that i just cannot believe it. Anyway i think that everyone see, that it works great haha :)
Mining SBD may be a great idea too because we can invest it later into our STEEMPOWER what may ( and i think it will ) turn up as a great investment.
Steemit is just a blockbreaker , it is a new idea , a precursor.
How does the content create money? Are they selling it? You've drank the koolaid.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@apocaloptimisto/dantheman-ned-please-remove-my-content-from-this-site
Content creation isn't the only service provided by the Steem blockchain... it pretty much encapsulates the same benefits as BTC (value transfer) with the addition of a relatively stable digital asset (SD), with content creation as a means of distribution.
None of that brings money into the platform that isn't someone buying steem because they've been duped by the ponzi.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@apocaloptimisto/dantheman-ned-please-remove-my-content-from-this-site
Since we're linking posts in this thread, I'll link you to @modprobe's response to this debate, as I think he does a nice job at refuting Tone's claims: https://steemit.com/steem/@modprobe/response-live-debate-about-steem
Lol kudos @satoshifpv for getting the jump on this. Here's my post of it with links to specific key moments.
My favorite was when I was told I didn't have the technical proficiency to answer.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@blakemiles84/the-great-steemit-debate-tone-vays-vs-blakemiles84
Ps- @satishifpv do me a solid and tag me in the description at least?:)
That part kind of blew my mind as well when he interrupted you to say you can't answer the question. I must say, @blakemiles84, your level of patience and peaceful interaction was quite impressive. The accusations being made against you and everyone who signed up for Steemit were quite outlandish.
Hey, @smooth, @berniesanders, and others with influence who voted this up to $2,800+, could you also vote up Blake's post? Seems very odd to me that he's the one who (IMO) did such a great job in this debate but who's post is only sitting at around $90 right now. I get the importance of voting up the live feed as it's happening, and I'm all about that, but I also think the participant in the actual debate should get a nice reward for representing the community so well.
@satishifpv I was also confused here and had to google "Blake Miles Steemit" to find his account (sorry Blake). Would have been nice to see some love spread to promote his blog at least when originally posting this one.
Fantastic to see Blake's post is now over $6k. :) This system works!
I flagged @satoshifpv obviously
Nice one @blakemiles84, I've seen plenty of debates - you did exceptionally well :)
Great video by the way but something is werid here. Aren't the post supposed to payout after 12hrs... Well at 12hrs this post was worth over 3,000$ and now it still hasn't paid out and is only worth 100$....
Can someone explain this to me
Not a blockchain?
There was proof of work before delegated proof of stake... only slightly different than hybrid proof of work for initial distribution and then proof of stake later in that witnesses sign blocks to allow for higher throughput to have better scalability.
The claim that this is not a blockchain is like saying proof of stake is not a blockchain or that bitshares is not based on a blockchain.
Technically, there is a random proof of work miner, so it's actually one of the only, or the only, hybrid systems that does a type of proof of stake while having some mechanism for proof of work.
I'm watching the debate right now but I want to let everyone know about the most important post I have ever done to help an Olympian that needs support from Steemit! I upvoted you. Please consider upvoting my post. https://steemit.com/steemit/@brianphobos/an-olympian-needs-our-help-steemit-please-read-this-if-you-have-ever-been-passionate-about-something
They are clearly interested on SteemIt but they are making it in a way all users can benefit from knowing the truth, the only truth and nothing but the truth about Steem. :)
This is definitely a blockchain. My husband has been mining and adding to the blockchain, just like you would with any cryptocurrency. This just has the addition of having a content creation component. I think the hybrid mission of Steemit could actually make a difference in the world. Take a look at my husband's article about it. And I'm still hoping to see your p vs np one! :)
https://steemit.com/steemit/@melek/open-discourse-and-how-steemit-is-qualitatively-different-from-every-intellectual-society-that-proceeded-it
Tone hasn't done his research. It's unfortunate - it could have been a great debate.
I don't understand what is the point... let's give a bit of trust... we have been "fucked up" from hashocean... I think all of us... for the first time... there is something NICE... everyone is attacking??? Cmon man... lets give them a chance!!! Maybe in a future we will tell you... you were absolutely right.... but till that moment let's trust them! ok???
Best regards
@webdeals
The debate is whether the steem platform is a great way to reward content creators.
My understanding of one of Tone’s main issues is that he thinks that there is no real value being attributed to the users. He believes this because the market cap and steempower value is being determined by a constructed limited market supply due to the system discouraging holding steem and incentivizing powering down. He believes that this reduced tradeable supply is significantly controlled by the developers who can manipulate the market and create artificial demand to keep the price high. He then goes on to say that even if you are not good at creating content you will be able to double your steempower every year due to inflation which to him is a ponzi. (he is wrong you steempower does not go up 100%)
My thoughts, since people have influence and power the potential for corruption exists. But there is also potential to use that influence to build larger communities which will result in much larger benefits. I agree it is difficult to understand the complexity of the system, but it is not difficult to use. This platform absolutely makes it easier and more likely for people to be rewarded for their content. I am rewarded by it providing the motivation to create. There is something beautiful and special about a system that can take someone who is shy and afraid to get on camera and convince them to make that jump and start creating content (cheers to mughat for sharing this comment with me). I am using the steemit platform to create content because I share the long term vision of building a new community that can benefit in ways that no previous online community has. For 10 years I have wanted to start a video podcast. Now because of steem, I have started one https://steemit.com/@steemnation
Thanks to everyone involved for the great debate.
Have you bought any steem power? Would you consider this a sound investment if you dont achieve your expected rewards?
Jza, yes I have bought some steempower, so far only one BTC worth. I am still trying to understand the back end of the platform better, which is why I love seeing debates like this. As far as expected rewards, I don't have any short term expectations. I understand it will be difficult to get noticed here if you do not show up with a following. I am fine with taking the time needed to grow an audience . That's how it would work anywhere else, so I don't expect it to be any different here. And besides, if me and my friends are unable to build an audience, maybe we just aren't good enough at creating content yet. We can't blame the platform for not providing rewards. It's a learning process, and a lot of fun.
Tone should not be talking crypto, let alone Steem. Every point he brought up was an assumption. He knows nothing about the coin or basics of blockchain tech. He should do his research before publicly speaking.
Blake wins by logic alone.
I had the same feeling. It was kind of embarrassing, in my opinion.
A healthy debate.
Tone Vays should join Steemit then he can have a more informed insight into how the system works. Someone should tell him it's free to join and he doesn't need to spend any BTC/ USD.... if STEEM/ Steemit is a ponzi, it's the worse ponzi in the world!
He may even get rewarded for his scepticism (however misguided).
The only people that can potentially lose out are those that buy STEEM, speculating on its future value (or just to have more influence on the platform). It's high risk and high reward for people that go down this route. However this is the same for every cryptocurrency being traded on Exchanges. If STEEM is a ponzi because of this then all cryptos are ponzis!
The difference with STEEM/ Steemit is it has a real life use case (people find value reading/ consuming the content of others every day) and people do not need money or technical knowledge to join the eco-system. It's revolutionary in it's simplicity in that regard.
All you need to know about Tone Vays summed up in one quote ...
"I don't think there's that many smart people in crypto."
Turn everything around and ask the same questions of bitcoin. What happens when people stop buying bitcoin with fiat? It's a joke to consider miners churning out arbitrary computations the creation of some "real value" and disregard the value that the entire steem community has identified in users' writing.
What's more valuable, content that people enjoy or wasted cpu cycles?
It's all an illusion...
Heheh. I was thinking the exact same thing. "Wait, is this guy arguing bitcoin is a ponzi scheme?"
I think there were definitely valid points on both sides, both guys were pretty good debaters. Definitely worth a watch for new people. I think its important to have both sides in this debate as criticism is good and healthy for creating a better system.
Interesting talk. Since it got to theTOP 10 Trending posts on Steemit I've added your article to the Flipboard Steemit Trending Magazine for everyone to check it out later.