RE: Help Fix Steem's Economy!
I'm reading this exchange between you and @hanshotfirst. I was under the impression the downvotes would work like upvotes. The power of the downvote would have to recharge after so many uses, but not contribute to upvote power depletion; kept separate.
Since abuse is inevitable, I'd make the downvote power drain faster than upvote power, recharge slower, cost more resource credits; things like that.
Even with downvotes becoming more common, I still see instances of abuse being about as rare as they are today. They will still come with a stigma attached and majority will use them as a last resort and a tool to combat abuse. These flag wars we see get a lot of attention but at the same time, they are rare.
Maybe another way to deter downvote abuse could include the lowering of reputation any time a downvote is handed out. When you guys with your massive SP selfvote, you see a nice increase in reputation. Would you go looney tunes with flags if that number dropped every time you used a flag? That would keep whales in line, as well as many others.
yes, i suggested a 10% separate pool, this does mean that they'll be more or less guaranteed 10% of value being reorganized by downvotes at all times
but i think the witnesses want to go with free downvotes being just as strong as upvotes which i'm against
I think weaker downvotes is good. slower recharge/faster drain is the same as weaker and probably one way of implementing it
If it's not a completely separate pool i think 20-30% free downvotes (3-5x slower regen or faster drain) is probably enough, maybe even a shade lower
The idea is to have something that's enough to deter 'abuse' by knocking it down a bit so that they might as well just upvote good content to compete for the 50% curation. We only need an amount that's sufficient to knock down bad voting behavior to roughly half at any given time to render it no more competitive than playing the game fairly, and under the new system I imagine this sort of behavior would drop sharply, so we don't need a sledgehammer
I agree we should keep downvotes in moderation, please tell the witnesses this. It'll be a disaster if they go 100% free downvotes
Edit: I don't think anyone cares about rep. As it is now it doesn't really affect anything so it won't serve to alter behavior much
Exactly. A deterrent, not a nuclear bomb with a hair trigger.
I'll try to throw the ideas in the mix if I'm around some witnesses on the chain, but I'm not the guy with all the connections. Hopefully they're still reading.
As for rep, you're right, but some are quite proud of their trophies and we did have that one somewhat botched airdrop that was dependent on reputation. I kinda like mine. I polish it up at night, sing to it; you know, normal things.
Was it a botched airdrop? I got 20 steem out of byteballs, felt happy about that. Not sure what airdrops are supposed to be like.
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I did not realize that there was a movement for free downvotes. If the only two choices are free downvotes or cheaper downvotes, obviously cheaper is better. But either will destroy the motivation to create quality content.
Choice A: Put up a gif of a miner, self vote and hope it sneaks by the downvoting posse.
Choice B: Put 3 - 6 hours of work into a post, hope it gets votes, then hope it sneaks by the downvoting posse.
For anyone with a job and life, choice A wins the vast majority of the time.
Thanks for actually caring about this conversation and engaging.
"I still see instances of abuse being about as rare as they are today."
The only thing preventing downvoting abuse is the fact that every downvote costs someone money. I think it is safe to say that the majority of the active SP on here right now is being used in some sort of "vote farming". Even if it is not a majority, I am positive it is at least a shit ton.
People don't even vote for other people's excellent content because they "only" get 25% of their vote back. Instead they spend their votes on themselves so they can get 100%. If people won't vote others when they at least get 25%, there is no way they are going to downvote which leads to them getting 0.
The fact that downvotes hurt a person's profit is the only reason downvotes are not currently abused. The cost is too high to abuse them.
If we remove that effect on profit, I assure you, people will downvote for purely selfish reasons (either sadistic or monetary).
If downvotes become cheap (or god forbid free) you will see this place become the most negative platform imaginable.
Who is going to bother putting time and effort into a post if the rewards can be dropped to zero by someone or a ring who is acting purely selfishly?
Upvotes are not being used to help the platform. What evidence is there to suggest downvotes will be?
Some of us still vote for other community members because we want to encourage them to continue engaging and creating content. If downvotes become cheap or free, it will be the final nail in the content coffin. No one will risk the time and effort to create quality content if the barrier to downvoting quality content is removed.
I tend to agree. I've always considered excessive paid votes to be a form of downvoting, because paid votes have the same effect as downvoting. Content gets buried, content in earned high slots on hot and trending gets pushed down and out of site. People don't give a crap about pushing others around, paid votes prove that, so therefore, yeah, free flags; probably dangerous.
People talk about this abuse a lot, and I agree, it FEELS true, but is it? I saw @sirknight post about 80% of rewards going to the minnows, dolphins, and plankton. And that just 1-2% were going to vote bots (which is the same as vote farming? Or is that something else?).
If that's true, maybe the roof isn't on fire. Do you have sources for your stats? Note: definitely just curious, not trying to call anyone out. I honestly don't know.
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