RE: The Case for "Enlightened Self-interest" on Steem /Help me fill up the @openmic reward pool this week/
I agree with a lot of your sentiment here. I do want to say that your definition of "enlightened self-interest" seems a bit flawed to me. At least, it doesn't coincide with my understanding of the term.
Its a philosophy in ethics that states that an individual, by acting in the interest of the community, a group, or society in general, acts in its own interest.
Example: I rob a bank. I do so because, I want money, and therefore it's in my self-interest. However, now I've set myself up to either go to prison, die in the act, or be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life fearing that I'll be caught. So, thinking rationally about it, thinking about it in an enlightened way, this is not in my self-interest at all.
But if I act in accordance with "enlightened self-interest", am I choosing to not rob a bank because it's in the interest of society or the group? No. I'm doing it because prison/death/life-long anxiety is against my self-interest.
Enlightened self-interest is about trying to see past immediate, obvious consequences. It's about sharpening one's self-interest, making more accurate judgments about consequences. It's about being practical. But it's always ultimately about self-interest. (Since all value springs from the "self".)
That being said, supporting and fighting for a peaceful and just society or group is definitely in everyone's enlightened self-interest.
Am I nit-picking? I don't think so. But feel free to say so. :)
I really dont see how your example applies here.
The motivation behind your choices, or non-choices is completely unimportant here.
Its important to stay on topic.
By robbing a bank, you could say you act in your selfish self interest. By acting in such a way you are creating a negative effect on society, if "more or all" (as stated in the post) act in such a way it would lead to societal collapse.
By not robbing a bank on the other hand you arent acting at all.
Your non-choices have no bearing on anything in this example.
Its all always about self interest, but there is a very clear distinction between enlightened self interest and the other.
Motivation is completely unimportant here. The end result is.
Hmm. Now I'm further confused.
We behave due to our motives. That seemed to be what your whole post was about: "enlightened self-interest". However one defines this, it is, conceptually, a question of motivation. No?
And if you say "the end result is what's important", this means that the end result is your motivation. No?
I agree there is often a clear distinction between "enlightened self interest" and "unenlightened self-inerest" (though there may be some overlap between the two). I was simply pointing out that I think it's problematic to define "enlightened self interest" as being motivated by a group's interest rather than the interest of the individual making the value judgment. There are other examples of ethics which hold the group's value as paramount - enlightened self interest is just not one of them.
Well you are kind of nitpicking, but not really. You are arguing semantics.
Arguing the definition of selfishness. If you wanted to go deeper in semantics i could argue that selfless acts dont exist. Even dying for another human being is not a selfless act. I could name you a hundred things why it is "selfish", but the point of this post is not that.
The way i define selfishness is clearly seen in the context of the post.
The point being.... By acting in the the self absorbed, non cooperative way, by placing the maximum short term gains above all else, the results you will get leads to "self destruction".
The motivation is always self interest. Motivation is not a variable here, so its really not important to discuss it.. Thats why its called enlightened self interest, its clear in the title that im not saying: "help others its cool"... Im saying do this to help yourself.
The distinction here being that the end result of one is to your detriment and the result of following enlightened self interest leads to you and everyone else benefiting.
Since the self absorbed short term self interest leads to long term results that are to your detriment, you arent actually acting in your self interest in the long run. You are acting out of stupidity. Yes, people tend to have a way of hurting themselves, which is why i mentioned the housing crisis.
This is why I said I agreed with your overall sentiment. I understood pretty much all that you're saying here in your original post. My issue was with the way you specifically defined "enlightened selfishness", because I think definitions are important.
If you're saying you standby the definition as you wrote it, hey, that's cool. It's your post. :) I'm just disagreeing.
Hehe. Cool. That is not my definition. I pulled it from a more credible source. 😁 I just tweaked it in wording.