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RE: Almost 3000 followers and how steemit (and the IFC) has helped change my life.
Wow, I'm not sure if I can give such a detailed reply at the moment, but the politics part caught my eye. I agree that words have power, but the formation of these blocks of power is paramount. The old idea of rhetorical argument is something central to my day job.
My friend who helps run the @musicapoetica account is putting together a nice series of articles on rhetorical argument. First one is up here
And the level of community engagement and cohesion is far beyond what I see on other servers!
Finally just got around to reading that cause I'm so swamped and busy. That was definitely a really interesting read! And yeah I think sort of similar/related what I was trying to say. So you deal with rhetorical argument a lot eh? Definitely sharpens the mind if nothing else! Heh. All kidding aside, I do think arguing is extremely important, I've just argued so much in my life I need a break for a while. Definitely a critically important skill to have though in my opinion!
This gentlebot keeps giving me big upvotes... Not that I'm complaining, but I don't know why!
Anyway, yes, in our particular specialisation of music, where speech and music hadn't yet seperated, the study of rhetorical speech is quite important. Sounds and figures and they way they are used have meaning, rather than pleasant sounds.
I had also studied rhetorical essay writing (and scientific essay writing) at school and university. The way you present an argument or try to convince the reader/audience is based on old ideas that still hold true today.
Argument is perhaps the wrong word, it is the art of persuasion...
Word. That's cool! In regards to the last thing you said though about argument.. To argue just means to make a "point" so I don't really see it as such a negative word anymore.. I think we're often all arguing certain points in our daily lives! It's a pretty normal part of human nature, which I think is all the more reason to learn about it so we can know about others and ourselves better as well!
Yes, I agree that arguments is just a part of point making and it shouldn't have the negative connotation. However, what one of a few people believe is nothing in comparison to the wider beliefs! Unfortunately, 'argument' is loaded generally with negative qualities. However, I guess realising and harnessing these positive or negative aspects (perceived aspects) of words and phrases is part of the art of persuasion!
Well said! I generally agree. Though personally I do my best to stick up for poorly stereotyped words. There's a number that have just been essentially destroyed, when in reality they are neutral words that don't mean what people think.. Religion is a good one in my opinion. So many people hate religion so much they've come to see it as a bad word, but in my opinion based on research it essentially just means to collect some ideas into a group of ideas.. To sort of, clump ideas together to form a belief about existence.. And I mean.. I think we almost all do that if not all of us.. Whether we attach to some "mainstream" religion or group thought or not, I think we're all coming to certain ideas about life and forming a sort of "worldview" or perspective on things.
I fear you fight a losing battle! Words only have currency as a concept that has a mutually agreed meaning. The orator and the audience have to agree, however, I think it would be tedious to have to redefine (against inate bias) words to the audience (however noble the cause!).
Surely it is best to speak in the meanings that hold currency with the audience? Echos of Lutheran teaching there...
Thing is.. Most average people don't even know the regular definitions let alone the etymology of almost any words. They essentially just mimic words in context or ask someone what a word means and create some kind of distorted perception of it, so that's almost always happening anyways.. People are almost always talking their own language cause they don't even know what words really mean, lol.
Other than that, I essentially agree with you. Which is why I think slang is almost more important than technical definitions because people tend to come up with their own language anyways. BUT.. I still think fixed definitions have a really important place and in the end, the idea of them is so that we DO have a mutually agreed meaning, though that rarely happens cause most people don't even know what words really mean.
But.. Agreeing on definitions is really important, throughout years and years of debating people I can't tell you how many times I've had to correct the way people use words and show them the definitions and what words really mean. So, I do think it's important especially in debate to get the language straight and be speaking on the same page as much as is possible.
Oh, the substitution of complex words for simple thoughts is my post peeve. Otherwise known as management speak.
In my field of music, there can be a tendency to use large words to basically intellectually intimidate or to bias a statement. This has led to an irritating use of words like 'natural' and 'artificial' to basically label ideas. It some absolutely crazy ones like 'temporal distortion' and quantum in music making! Having my background, it just drives me nuts!
You really notice it when people are put in a spotlight, the manner of speaking and the vocabulary can change quite dramatically!
We'll be all fixed when we can just convey ideas telepathically!
Don't know if you know about mathematical set theory? Even conveying the sense of what it means to have the property of 'two-ness' and the ideas that lead from there is quite interesting. If there is a question in mathematics then words have no chance!