Basketball: How important is a coach?

in #sports6 years ago (edited)

I'm glad the greatness of LeBron James is in full bloom, especially after I went out of my way to argue that he's the GOAT!

He just doesn't lose a playoff series, not when there's a realistic chance of winning. (Which is a little bit of a tautology, but still.. you know what I mean. You need so much talent on the other side before he doesn't win.)

Next, most likely, he will be up against the Boston Celtics and their wiz kid head coach Brad Stevens.

Sports analyst Will Cain asks how many players you would take ahead of Brad Stevens in a draft, if you want to maximize your chances of winning a championship in the next 5 years:

I think he's wildly low to only take 8 guys.

What Brad Stevens has shown is that he can take "not that much talent" and be pretty good, but if you're not over the hump of being a viable championship contender, then it doesn't matter. We don't know that he'd necessarily be any good at managing a team of superstars over the hump. Managing a team of superstars who could viably contend for a title is a different thing, and it's not clear that the coach's "genius" would be so important in that spot.

Does LeBron James need (or even want) whatever schemes he's running? Probably not.

Does Golden State need it? Do they want to upend whatever they're doing with their programs and analytics and whatnot, and incorporate Brad Stevens? Probably not.

Does Houston want him?

How much value he can add to teams like this seems limited, and maybe even negative overall when you factor in the chance that he actually makes things worse. Whereas a strong role player would maybe push you over the hump and never hurt.

It's hard to imagine a situation where great coaching is what gets you over the hump.


If I was drafting Brad Stevens, rather than a player, I'd worry about two things: (1) that maybe he's just kind of been lucky so far, either because the Celtics won't do this well usually or some of their players just actually have high intensity winning-type of qualities that aren't necessarily measured or factored into their reputation and it's being assumed that the credit should go to the coach when maybe the team just gels in some way that would win anyways and (2) that the rest of the league catches up -- it's hard to imagine that you, as a head coach, could know anything that the rest of the coaches aren't able to observe and learn themselves or at least learn how to counter.

So even if he's genuinely adding a lot of value right now, I don't really know when that would expire. But I know Russell Westbrook will be Russell Westbrook.

Luck-Heavy Games

Having spent plenty of time playing poker, you get familiar with what it feels like to have an edge at a game that's still mostly luck.

Poker is a game of skill in the long run, but on any given day you're only a small favorite against even people much worse than you. (A novice can beat a world-class player.) A board game like monopoly is probably a similar luck to skill ratio. And the game of "coaching" seems up the same alley. A small edge in the long-run, but mostly luck-based on each given day.

Physically playing a sport is much more predominantly skill. (If you're better than someone, it can easily be that they have 0% chance to beat you. Difference in ability pronounces itself much more.)

So it's this concept that kind of automatically lowers how important a coach could be. If behind door A you have someone playing a skill-heavy game and behind door B you have someone playing a luck-heavy game, it's hard to ever want the guy behind door B.

You have to go really far down the list to the point where the people behind door A are very marginal compared to the next guy before you start considering the people behind door B. (Because they'll always be only a marginal improvement over the next guy, even if they're way better.)

nerds

I think as a nerd you want to glorify the coaches and the strategy and whatnot. But even as nerdiness becomes more important in the NBA, which is happening, you'd think it would be general management and specialized analytic departments who craft this stuff, and the role of the coach is more managing egos and team chemistry and educating and cultivating the environment and stuff like that.

I just fail to see why "a brilliant coach" is really a thing that matters much in the NBA.

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I don't know basketball but I do know LeBron James

He was in the movie: Trainwreck

But on the subject matter, I agree with you to a large degree. There are so many variables that can make someone a 'good' or 'bad' coach. The composition of team members is certainly one of them.

That said, I still believe coaches do more than manage egos and all. I see coaches as the generals who anticipates the opponents' every move and prepares a counter attack.

Maybe I'm just like the nerds you mentioned

Blessings

That said, I still believe coaches do more than manage egos and all. I see coaches as the generals who anticipates the opponents' every move and prepares a counter attack.

Ya, for sure, I didn't mean to imply that the managing egos and the chemistry type of stuff is all that they do, but more that it's a big part of it.

I think it varies team by team, but in general you're probably right, that indeed they're devising schemes and whatnot.

Cleveland (LeBron's team) is sort of unique in the sense that LeBron didn't like their previous coach, and the coach they have now is a former player with no prior coaching experience, and it's more or less assumed that LeBron is essentially coaching the team. But most coaches indeed probably are responsible for their team's strategy.

I guess my statement is more from the prism of what I believe the role of the coach should be, like how it would work for me if I'm in charge of a team.

I want a room full of nerds and geeks, and probably like a "lead strategist". And I want him to work closely with the coach. I don't feel like I necessarily need my coach to be a brilliant strategist (I want him to be kind of good, certainly to be able to understand the concepts and then teach them to the players). But the primary skill I want out of him is communication, the players like him, he can teach, keep people on the same page, etc.

It's also the case that the players themselves need to be able to make good decisions. (Fortunately NBA players have off the charts high IQs.) So that's why I want the coach to be really good at teaching the concepts, and then you just outsource it to the players.

In football it's a lot more mechanical, because you stop and reset before every play. But in basketball the players are more constantly needing to make judgments. So I see the coach as more a facilitator towards helping them make the best decisions.

Okay

Now I share your perspective

I agree with the communication part. Ultimately, if a coach cannot connect and communicate with the players, nothing else will work.

I think from that angle, it's alright to say a coach simply manages the players. The players themselves (from the difference you pointed out between football and basketball), are the ones who experience the heat of the moment and make the critical on-the-moment decisions.

The coach simply has to make sure the team works as one, communicate plans and goals and help each player reach their potential.

This just gave me some thoughts to mull over. Sometimes the best way to OK help people succeed is to help them take out the initiative on their own. Simply create an enabling environment

Blessings6

Exactly! Right on. Cool that it gave you some stuff to think over. Funny how sports.. or really anything that matter.. can be interesting and give you a lot to think about when you start breaking it down.

Brad Stevens is dope, bro. I remember thinking the same thing at the beginning of the season when Hayward went down and they were still winning. I though yaa Stevens is good but Kyrie and co are just awesome. Then Kyrie got injured, Horford got injured and all those little injuries to some other player, and they were still grindin'.

Sure they had a couple glitches, but fast forward to now and they're still in the ECF. Honest I used to think the hype on coaches didnt matter much either. Take Kerr for example, Kerr is awesome, and a hell of a coach, but if you take him out of GSW they would still at lest get to the conference finals. A good point would be when Luke Walton filled in after his surgery and they still won 24 straight.

That said, Brad Stevens is really making me re-consider that stand. Lets see them take the King to 7 games and its finished.


Glad I had the chance to check out your blog again. Been really busy lately. Cheers, bro.

ya, King is at the height of his powers, if Celtics can win or make it close that would be a strong statement

funny that it's Cavs vs Celtics and we don't get to see LeBron vs Kyrie .. I'm kind of glad tho too, I support LeBron, and having the matchup is good for Kyrie, it would be sort of like a no lose situation

Kyrie has to hate being injured, he'd be looking really good if it's him leading the team to this point, like better reg season than LeBron and a decent chance to win against him, like "omg Kyrie really can lead a team", and instead we get to see that they were actually good anyways lol, so it's like a total reversal, LeBron has to feel so free and loose compared to if he were against Kyrie

Kerr annoys me. lol. He's smug, or something, lol, I don't know. I feel like I'd take Stevens for sure if it's a mediocre team who you want to be effective, and then if it's an elite team with a good shot to win, maybe Stevens is still better, but you'd know for sure Kerr can get it done so I'd prob take Kerr.

Welcome back, nice to see you show up!! hope busy life is treating you well

I know! Its so sad. I'm sure the media guys are seething in pain. LeBron vs Kyrie would have been a frigging hot cake. But ya as a fan of both of them there's kindof a good side to it, lol.

Haha, ya Kerr could be kinda smug sometimes. But he's so cool when he goes on clipboard-breaking mode, haha.

Cheers, bro.

cheers back at you bro! 🍻

haha I'll keep my eyes out for Kerr 👀 I'll try to look for the good

The game feels like it is simpler now because of analytics - shoot more threes and keep your assist totals high to win. That simplicity lends itself to a smart player like LeBron who can manage the in game flow and ensure the habits to those results are met. A coach anymore seems like a guy who keeps track of numbers and helps players refocus on those numbers during timeouts.

In short, I agree with you, lol.

That simplicity lends itself to a smart player like LeBron who can manage the in game flow and ensure the habits to those results are met.

Exactly! The great players are going to do it in real-time, maybe even subconsciously to a large extent, and that's what you should want the most. The role of coaching seems more about educating and fine-tuning, but you ultimately want players who are good at sensing what they should do and will be good at applying what they know.

In football it's a little different because you reset and think about a play each time. And there are more people being coordinated with each play. They're isolated bursts. Basketball seems much more about players making decisions in flow.

I am not his fan but LeBron is the GOAT. No argument. It amazes me the heights he has reached and how far behind his 'contemporaries' are. It is not like football where we have the Ronaldo-Messi argument daily.
As for Brad Stevens. Does lightning strike in the same spot twice? The guy deserves not just credit but accolades. They booted out the process and the bucks without their two stars. Even though they lose to LeBron as I suspect they will. He will bow out gracefully.
Basketball is fun

ya, it annoyed me last year how after GSW won kevin durant was like "lebron, man that guy, he pushed me so hard" like he was complimenting him but the point was to try to make it seem 1 on 1 like that this would count for him beating LeBron. at least that was my soul read of what was going on lol. reality is no one else is close..

I feel like with Jordan.. you can take the next best guys and give them little bit of help and you tip the scales in not that long. just feels like you have to stack the deck so much harder before you beat LeBron (especially the last few years now that he's at grandmaster level)

I never watched Jordan play. But LeBron has played with children, immature veterans and good players and still manage to lead them. He is a force of nature. I admire him to be honest. I mean, this year was just about written off. They barely made the playoffs. They don't have home court advantage but they keep winning, against the so-called next best things no less. Don't get me started on the raptors.
As for Durant, he is just a pure scorer. Some might disagree but that's how I see him. He can't lead a team. He lacks the charisma and magnetism Steph and LeBron has. Somehow apart from the ring, he did the right thing thing go GSW

ya, even if it's true that MJ is "more clutch" or "a better winner" or whatever (which was always just result-oriented perception sort of thing, and LeBron has probably kind of changed it at this point), it seems like he definitely couldn't have done as much with so little. LeBron seems definitely better at dragging bad teams. I feel like MJ in a lot of situations, if you shuffle up and replay his career, when he doesn't get 6 chips and the "pristine" story line of never losing in the finals, maybe doesn't seem so great anymore, like not the "Michael Jordan" we think of today .. LeBron doesn't depend on that and is pretty much always the "LeBron" we think of

so to me it feels a lot like Jordan just kind of got lucky, and across all permutations LeBron would prove to be the better player

definitely if you put LeBron on the Bulls with Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson guiding the ship, I don't think it would have been difficult for him to win 6 titles

I'm sorry, I just read this. It's all over nba twitter https://www.slamonline.com/nba/lebron-james-told-raptors-run-plays-game/

haha I'll check it out!! sounds so funny, but makes sense, he's passionate and into it and prob just can't help himself, like he sees something off and just needs to teach #grandmaster

He just doesn't lose a playoff series, not when there's a realistic chance of winning.

That’s sooo true! When it comes to coaching or managing so many superstars it is like a too many cooks in the kitchen. Not only in basketball. I remember this ice hockey World Championship when Russians were called “The Dream Team”. I can’t tell the year, but they totally sucked. Czech team at that time beat them with completely unknown players with only few exceptions. I’m convinced that great coaching is very important for discipline and perhaps motivation. You can’t replace the spirit of a great coach. I witnessed it myself when I was sport active. Great coach can give you a great motivation whether it’s a short therm or long therm.

Ya, when it's more amateur/novice type of level, the coach can motivate. On a pro level they only got to that point because they're super driven, so they should be self-motivated, or at least motivated by the money and the spotlight.

Wow, you definitely know quite a lot about basketball and that sport stuff. I cannot join you there haha - I only know and think that good coaches are important/relevant; maybe you do not always need them but the right coach could help you a lot (probably).
But that probably depends on different factors - like skill/level, sport, character of the athlete,...

Haha, I really don't know that much. If you know enough, there comes a point where you can speak on the topic, and you jog your memory and google is there if you need it. A lot of this is just conceptual. I know the basic landscape of the NBA. But once in a while I'll hear a name that I barely recognize or something that a "true fan" would know for sure and consider it unacceptable to not know.

I probably know certain things that casual fans don't know or don't think about, but plenty of other things that they know and I don't.

Okay haha. Well, but I mean here specificly in regards to basketball. I am not following this sport. I have heard of LeBron James and know that he is really good but that was it haha.
I know that it is "partly" conceptual - I have read your article. :P
I just realized that you know much more than I do regarding this NBA stuff.
Alright, I only wrote down my thoughts before - thanks for clarifying; you still know more than I do.

Many fans probably are too hyped, in love with their favoirte players and all that subjectivity. Your post seems objective (more or less). (;

hehe ya, I guess "how much you know" is all relative .. I like the theory and concepts and can talk a good game when I stick within my wheelhouse :p but wanted to be clear that I'm far from an NBA aficionado or whatever.

I'll probably try to watch some of the conference finals games if I can find a good way to do it online, but it'll be like the first I actually watch of it this season.

That is right haha. Np - I understand it.

Just share it here, I will (try to) watch it as well, if it is not hours long. :D

It'll be hours long! but like, only 2 or so of them.. 2 and a half

Duuude haha - okay I will try/see.

Basketball is a very prestigious sport, I like to watch it even though sometimes there is a term that I do not understand, the basketball sport is very much in demand ..

yes, the basketball sport is growing .. worldwide .. maybe can be #2 global sport after European Football

baseball is sinking (boringgggg .. best teams only have a small edge)
american football is getting dangerous (I could see a decline after the Tom Brady era)
hockey, meh

seems like the next decades are basketball

A coach develops a coaching philosophy.
A coach develops appropriate curriculum to teach the sport.
A coach makes age appropriate decisions and plans for his team.
A coach is responsible for the environment where the team plays.
A coach inspires his team and motivate them when needed.
A coach makes sure all legal, moral, ethical standards are in place.
A coach acts as a communicator who is clear and well spoken.
A coach knows the rules and follow them for the game of basketball.
I think a good and professional coach is always necessary.

A coach makes age appropriate decisions and plans for his team.

I'm not sure how many of these are on topic as it pertains to coaching a professional team, which will be all adults.

I'm also intrigued why you'd be sitting on a list of bullet points like this, just waiting for an article about basketball coaching to spam it at.

Perhaps you just copied the bullet points from here: http://www.layups.com/responsibilities-of-being-a-basketball-coach/

Flagged for plagiarism.

Try harder.

Demn, this article seems to be quite good, I guess, but nothing new, I think haha. Have not read it all but some of those phrases.
Btw. his comment seems quite hilarious - now, after your prove of plagiarism lol.

Haha ya. It's really obnoxious of them, like in a way I kind of appreciate the spam that just says "hi dear nice post resteemit done" lol .. it occupies more of your attention when you have to sort out whether it's a real comment or not.

this one was obvious spam, like no one actually responds like that, bullet points and no typos but off topic and clearly didn't read the article. but some can be grey area, at least before checking their comment history.

haha, true - I hate these comments too; simply "Why?!". I mean wtf. Just do something else if you do not want to read anything and 'interact' with others... this behavior is just awkward/disgusting/...

Yes, he was way too direct. Presumably only read the headline. Immediately listing these sayings lol.
I really wonder how he reached this high reputation number.

haha ya, reputation system seems pretty imperfect, like it's probably even a bunch of his own accounts that vote for him. that plus buying votes from bots.. you can probably find some way to angleshoot a decent score, and then tend to use your accounts that have the best ratings and stop using them when they get flagged

haha, true - I hate these comments too; simply "Why?!". I mean wtf. Just do something else if you do not want to read anything and 'interact' with others... this behavior is just awkward/disgusting/...

ya, I mean the spammers can be useful because we can use them to try to think about the incentives in play and how we should change them. in general I don't "blame" people for how they choose to use the Steem blockchain. but in this case it's just kind of lame lol, like that they would think this is the most productive use of their time.

if it's someone in a 3rd world country where $1 goes really far.. and they have technical skills to automate the spamming.. I guess it makes more sense. but still inconsiderate lol

maybe they can train their bots to be like "okay @full-measure doesn't upvote spam and sometimes flags" lol

I fully agree with you. This reputation system is not flawless but it probably is pretty difficult to make it perfect? You cannot (always) know if someone has more than one account because maybe his extremely loyal followers like all his stuff (immediately). But this bot votes buying stuff is really "annoying/unfair...", I believe; simply not necessary and respectively Idk why this does exist, maybe because it cannot be stopped?
In my opinion everyone should just have to do the "same thing"/walk the same way: Post, comment and upvote. And not pay for being one of the 'best'. You can create different accounts if you really want/need to do that haha - that cannot be stopped, I think; but imo that is just hilarious - maybe some people have a "real/acceptable" reason but Idk. Sounds weird.
They probably only want money - but then just invest in some coins (or mine/stake or whatever); most of them are still going ttm anyway, it is not too late. Many people say that it is too late but they always just talk bullsh!t - do not talk about something and act like you are a boss if you actually do not know sh!t.

Yes, it absolutely is lame haha.

Lmao, Idk if there are that many people who like such comments. But there probably are haha.

Lol :D

ya I think some people might just click "like" on any comment that seems nice, or maybe they just click like on all their comments or something .. most people don't, but if just a few people do, then I can see why spammers might spray and pray if they can bot it and it's very little effort

so we should blame the people who vote for them!! :p

But this bot votes buying stuff is really "annoying/unfair...", I believe; simply not necessary and respectively Idk why this does exist, maybe because it cannot be stopped?

ya, I think the thing is it's a legitimate use of Steem. I mean, subjectively it may not be something we find desirable.. but it's within the rules of how Steem works.

So I think we should look at the vote buying as just an aspect of Steem in its current format. (It's one of the ways people are deciding to use it.) And if we want to minimize it, I think we need to think about what changes to make to the system.. or whatever things would give incentive against doing it.. peer pressure probably stops a little bit of it, but ultimately the incentives dictate the behavior, and we can't rely on just peer pressuring each other into perpetuity.

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