You are viewing a single comment's thread from:
RE: Beautiful Photos from a day trip in Kent (Deal)
Sure, I will be happy to share some of his ideas with you. There are few short videos (2 minutes) there that try to give a description about his theories, maybe you can try them? https://www.youtube.com/user/twcjr44/videos
Thanks. I watched this one:
It's only two minutes long, so the following comment might well fail to comprehend what he has to say.
I have the same skepticism regarding his idea that I have with a similar idea promoted by @cause-no-harm. In a nutshell, in a world that is inherently violent, becoming caring and giving and nonviolent will not bring you peace. It will bring you death. (To see this, imagine a group of monkeys in a jungle all deciding to become nonviolent and caring and giving. Assume that they live in a place where food is plentiful, and there is a second group of monkeys who are starving and violent.)
Humanity has no hope of improving its situation until it UNDERSTANDS its situation. Groping toward an understanding of our situation, an analytical understanding, will require centuries of hard work in various social sciences. Perhaps 200 years from now, humanity will be able to transform its situation through personal transformation. But today, if any individual or group does that, it will merely create a vacuum into which force and violence will flow to exploit the absence of an opposing force.
See my village/hunt metaphore in my blog. The village mode of thinking (empathy giving compassion etc.) is appropriate for the village. It is not appropriate for the hunt or on the battlefield. The village/hunt metaphore isn't really just a metaphore. It remains the way of human society and of Nature, and it will always be so.
I completely understand what you mean. In his long videos Tom does talk about it too and he talks about the low level of consciousness of human beings at the moment (nursery level as he calls it) and talk about ways of growing in consciousness. At the same time he talks about acting rationally and obviously act when you need to and not put yourself in unnecessary danger. I guess in his case you need to give the time to listen to longer videos (the fire chats or really good, where people asks him questions). Defending yourself is one thing - initiating violent or aggressiveness is another. We should all act as we want everyone else to act, be a role model, an example.
These ideas actually make the world more dangerous. They are naive. I'm not trying to be confrontational. We are just beginning to encounter each other. I don't mean to attack you or anything like that. Just saying that I see things differently. I'm more of a "peace through strength" kind of thinker who sees unilateral disarmament in a hostile world as foolish. If you were a woman living in a village of my village/hunt metaphore, the violent reality of our environment would be self evident to you and you would have no thought that personal change could change that violent external reality, because it would be obvious to you that the character of the jungle is a given and that the men and women of a village must conform to that reality rather than expect that it will conform to them.
These are all just first reactions. Thank you for listening.
No worries. I'm not sure though that you understood me, unless you believe in initiating violence even if you are not under any attack? I have a feeling that you put what I said in a specific box, as things have to be black and white for you- that's because some of the things you said in your reply to me - I didn't even say or mentioned, it's your assumption that this is what I mean.. anyway, thanks for listening too. I like a discussion that involve more questions, and not assumptions, but it's harder in text I think.
Please be patient with me. I have many demands on my time. Our getting to know each other must be done in slow motion, over many days, in little pieces.
If we were chatting live, the conversation would be richer. Using text to converse is like breathing through a straw. Tackling a sensitive world-view values issue with text is like breathing through a straw when you are jogging.
On the battlefield, yes, I believe in initiating violence. "The best defense is a good offense." In my legal fighting against corrupt government, I get in a good punch whenever there is an opening. So does my opponent.
In nature, a carnivore initiates violence to obtain each meal. That is also the way of the man's world, although that nature is concealed.
Yes, we are very far in our approaches.
In nature a carnivore need to initiate violence - otherwise it will die - this is a different story.
I understand your approach but don't agree with it. The way I see it - in a way, you are part of the problem. You see me as part of the problem. so will have to agree to disagree...
By the way, that doesn't mean that I am not up for activism, but activism for me is non-violent.
I choose not to live in fear, I choose to live in love and in my experience I see that it also affects the people around me. You go in to a shop - you smile to the person there, you have a chat - it makes a difference.
Part of the difficulty that I am having is that I must presume without knowing that you are a female and I have to guess at how old you are. I'm not asking; just be aware that these mysteries make it harder for me to express my ideas in a way that makes them accessible to you. I am speaking as a 63 year old man, and we are discussing a topic that (I claim) men and women will naturally see from different angles.
In my opinion, we are not disagreeing. Using my metaphor of the village/hunt, we are conversing about the nature of human life and whether there is a potential for a fundamental change toward peace. You are a woman in the village. I am a hunter/warrior out in the jungle. The village is supposed to be a place of peace; that is purpose of the hunter/warriors, to protect and to provide for the village so that it will be a place of peace and plenty. The hunt, and the battlefield, can never be a place of peace.
As a woman, it is your nature to cooperate with other women to make the village a peaceful and joyful place. As a man, it is my nature to cooperate with other men to protect the village and to provide for it.
This is the pattern of life. It is a pattern that will never change, because it is built into us. Due to the complexity of society today, the relevance of the village/hunt metaphor is not obvious. But if you look with honest eyes, you will see it.
And by the way - I'm more optimistic than you - I think it will take 20-50 years for the big change in human beings..
Don't let me or anyone else tell you that you cannot do what you envision doing! If it gets you out of bed and fills your heart with passion, that's life and you will make a difference!
Thank you for your words. I do try to live like that, and follow my intuition and my heart 9and my logic too). I've always been a 'rebel' in a way that I keep asking questions. I think the best teaching is your own experiences, and this is what I follow. I wish you good night :-)
Good night. Thank you, @limma.