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RE: Jacque Fresco - Da Vinci of Modern Times And Creator of The Venus Project Dies at 101 Years of Age
Define what was delusional and ethically questionable.
Also did you read his book or just made up biased ad hoc opinion based on little information?
I did post extensive details about the guy way back at another post of kevin.
More or less the guy takes designs from science fiction books and applies them to his vision about a sci-fi future. He is a radical communist utopianist as he admitted in the past. Highly delusional.
His actual words. Now, let's move to the spicy stuff.
Now, to cut the line short since I ve' done this at least 10 times with other people and I know where this conversation is heading let's debunk the core where you got the pop-culture utopian idea and got you all wet with this guy to begin with. You know, the over-hyped Zeitgeist which is full of bullshit. It's ok. All youngsters fell for it. It's like the no.1 movie everyone watches and goes "wow i' ve seen the light"
Zeitgeist debunked here (along with your guy ofcource)
http://skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist-addendum/
Now we got the basic out of the way. Please do entertain me about the content of the book you read. I am always happy tackle pop-culture . Just please make your arguments a bit worthy.
You have no clue at you are talking about mate. I should not be even replying to this as this nonsense is beyond ludicrous. It is self evident now that you are completely clueless about what TVP is actually about which you have just proven with above nonsense arguments. I expected the above as these are typical opinions that are perpetuated around by people who know little about TVP. Instead they rely on half with, under informed opinions of others to create their own even more ridiculous and ignorant.
I will just summarise it quickly.
". He is a radical communist utopianist as he admitted in the past. "
Nope he has never claimed to be neither communist not utopianist. Obviously you have just mindlessly repeat someone's opinion which is complete lie. He has never claimed it. Actually him and TVP have long critics of such social systems. Also, he never recognised the concept of utopia and whole RBE system by design can never reach and want to reach such state as it is emerging system not established. Utopia means something that does not transform and change anymore - an ultimate point someone tries to reach. There is no ultimate point in Scientific Method based RBE as there is always new discovery and technology replacing old.
The "critical" article under the link that you have provided is a complete load of clueless nonsense. The author of that article does not even seem to know where the name of the project came from and simple facts about Jacque Fresco biography and his professional credentials.
Whole article is just projection of biased, misleading and ignorant opinion. You just embarrass yourself by bringing that article up.
Also, you have yet proven hiw badly ignorant you are in the subject by bringing up The Zeitgeist Movement. TZM has nothing to do with The Venus Project except that director of Zeitgeist films Peter Joseph has been inspired by TVP concept of RBE after reading Fresco's book. These are two, completely different organisations that do now work with each other. There was short time of cooperation when P Joseph was making Zeitgeist Moving Forward but it stopped as TVP wasn't happy about what The Zeitgeist Movement was aiming for. They have not worked together since and clearly stated their distance shortly after the release of that film.
The book is called "The Best That Money Can't Buy" by J. Fresco.
Obviously, as you are mindlessly clueless about what TVP is about and who Fresco was, you have never heard of it.
I will not be responding to your ignorant and arrogant comments anymore.
Go away to your self righteous, know-it-all, often badly under informed, preaching articles that you have been projecting since day one on this platform. They are certainly attractive for as clueless and ignorant audience.
You just happen to catch the late Fresco wave. The marketing/promotional one. Read along:
"I went to some of Fresco’s meetings in the 1970’s. My uncle lived next door to him. I had Jacque’s booklist he originally gave attendees and read and studied all the books on it. I was sent tapes of Jacque’s weekly lectures, and these became an ingrained part of my life. I am quite familiar with the man and his ideas. My uncle was a devout follower most of his life, and like Roxanne (Jacque’s girlfriend), is an intellectual clone. My uncle had a girlfriend back then in the early 80’s, who was a sociologist. She called the group a cult.
Many of the ideas I am going to mention are ideas Fresco and Roxanne have downplayed, if not completely ignored, over the years in an effort to gain a wider audience and financial support. You need to understand, this stuff is not science. It’s science fiction fantasy.
– Jacque Fresco is a proponent of social engineering and B.F. Skinner and behaviorism. Skinner was all over Jacque’s original booklist. Walden Two, Skinner’s science fiction book, was on there, as was Skinner’s Verbal Behavior. So was Looking Backward by Bellamy. As was Norbert Wiener’s and Cybernetics. By the way, as you probably know, Skinner was discredited long ago regarding human complexity and social conditioning. Noam Chomsky discredited Skinner’s verbal claims.
– Fresco’s future has children born outside the womb and nurtured in cybernetic nurseries. Look to his first book: Looking Foreword and Social-Cyberneering. Fresco believes that raising children cannot be entrusted to conventional parenting. Children will be raised by daycare centers and the community, like in the science fiction book, Walden TWo.
– Fresco’s future consists of open relationships and free partnering that will replace nuclear and extended households. It is a future of the “individual,” as you can read in his book: Looking Foreward.
– Technocrats, that is scientists, will be entrusted to run central planning before society is eventually completely computerized and cybernetic. And we all know that we can completely trust anyone in power. Mr. Fresco easily divorces science from power, prestige, and personal egos.
– Fresco doesn’t believe that love exists, or many other feelings and ideas we consider human phenomena. This is because he adheres strictly to the Cartesian idea that all human phenomena should only be view through the lens of the material, physical sciences. He believes people are nothing more than complex machines. Hence the Skinnerian simplicity and conditioning he adheres to. The problem is, if you consider people as nothing more than machines, you will end up treating them as such. For an example, Mr.Fresco is a self-professed child rearing expert. Yet, not many people know that his son committed suicide. He extends science, which is nothing more than a tool for thinking, and generalizes it to all of society and human behavior. This is naïve, and very dangerous.
– In Fresco’s world, words need to have one given meaning, in order to make conversation more efficient. Sound Orwellian? Of course, this is not how language and meaning works in our minds. Again, he is a self-proclaimed expert on this, as well, but really understands very little.
Like my uncle, their education exposure is limited. So it’s easy to come to the final solution. Fresco’s ideas on social engineering were too extreme back in the day when he didn’t care what people thought. And his group went nowhere. He’s learned how to play a lot of that down."
https://outofthegdwaye.wordpress.com/2014/02/24/the-venus-project-everything-wrong-with-utopian-fantasy-in-108-simple-questions/#comment-5036
Half of it is utter nonsense. The other half is anecdotes mixed with facts about his life. Obviously Fresco made mistakes in the past. Obviously, making mistakes is a process of learning. Important to what the ideas have evolved to by now. The worst is the research of concept that doesn't change. That is Utopian. Learning on mistakes and constant change for better is opposite of Utopia. The only ones who call it utopia are the "debunkers" of Fresco work. They live to debunk the solutions he offers while they offer nothing of intelligent solution to social and environmental problems in exchange. Criticising without offering solution is worthless.
About TVP research regarding human behaviour, love etc. These are currently up to date with exactly what the most recent discoveries in human behavioral biology/evolution, genetics, epigenetics and neuroscience have found out.
p.s. I don't value a lot of what Chomsky says (with some exceptions) as I have found him out to be intellectually dishonest.
Illusions are not scientific. Nothing of what he designed is sustainable. He just ripped off some designs from sci-fi books and noobs bought it. That's about it.
I'm glad someone said this. Your summation of him as a radical communist utopian is spot on.
He was a far leftie with very illogical ways of arguing. Always trying to break down terms. Very postmodern. I think he has gotten far too much credit, even if he was an intriguing designer.