My soul can't be bought with streets of gold! On why I am not attracted to the Christian Heaven.
I think people spend too much time arguing whether the biblical god is real or not when they should really be asking its believers why they want that god to be real, why they want to believe.
When you do this the conversation takes a turn and they start telling you about all the ills they see in the world and how their god said he would take them all away and destroy all that is bad.
If you ask these people why they want to go to heaven they will tell you about how hard they have fought to earn it, how their lord has promised they will not to suffer anymore. But ask them about what they think heaven will look like and silence is likely to follow.
The reason why there is not much of a description about heaven is because heaven is an opposite, just like the Christian god is. Heaven is simply the opposite of what they think hell is like, or what they have been made believe it is like.
One thing is clear, Christians want to go to heaven because they are suffering. Why they may be suffering similarly is a subject I rather save for another post. The important thing here is that Christians are not pursuing anything by acting in accordance to what their god says they should do, what they are really doing is trying to escape the consequences of not doing so, pain, which is what the idea hell revolves around.
Do you eat in heaven? And if you do, are there bathrooms or the food just dissapears in your mouth as you are chewing? Do people sleep in heaven? Do people have sex? Is there at least Wi-Fi?
Some believers will say that when you go to heaven you will spend your days worshipping this god, I ask them what would make them think I'd want to do that in heaven if I don't want to do it on earth?
Others will insist in that pain on earth is too much to stand, that they don't want to experience any more of it. I ask these people, after they spend 100 years without pain, will they remember the relief of not having it?
There is no light without darkness and no joy without sorrow. How do you know what being rich is like if you've never been poor?
Christians don't believe humans being can be good without good, they don't see themselves as good, they convince themselves that they are bad, feel bad because of it, and seek a solution from the only being they think can be good.
I want to believe we are all good, even if sometimes we do things that don't reflect this. That is why I and many others see a lot of beauty in the world, and not just tragedy as many believers do.
Can there be a better place? Maybe. But we don't even know if another place exists. If I want something better I think I have better chances at making this world better as opposed to giving up on it for the promise of a better one, one day, no one knows when.
You can't sell heaven to me because I am not afraid of hell.
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Your article demonstrates how many non-believers are unfortunately thinking. Although believers sometimes generalize non-believers you definitely generalized believers a lot. And this comes by not knowing them. Maybe you've heard some news in media. Maybe you've met some people who claimed to be Christians. But it seems most goes just out of your own imagination. I'm not saying there is no logic in your thinking but because they are many mistakes and false presumptions your result is entirely wrong.
So don't be tricked, there were many people who were suffering very much until they turned to God. They were suffering from diseases, traumas, losses etc. They are not yet in heaven and still they are already experiencing great things even on this Earth. Through your logic they should not be seeking Heaven anymore because they are already fine. In spite of that they look forward and it's not because of fear but because they came to know how great Jesus is.
You've also written you not afraid of hell. That's only possible for those who haven't seen it yet. I can assure you, I've never seen any man, no matter how tough he was, who saw or visited hell and who was not terrified to death by it. And I've seen lot of them. So I wish you to re-evaluate your views to be rather saved than tricked.
You want me to be afraid of hell?
You want me to want your heaven?
Gotta give me at least a reason rather than say I am generalizing because you know better, because you've seen more or because more has been revealed to you.
Why is heaven so great? Still no one can tell me.
The same subject again and again, how this god is going to take all your pain away, one day, no one knows when. Funny how I am supposed to believe when believers can't even come up with a reason why, other than fear. Show me that I am wrong, until then no reason to change. You've only shown me that I am right.
Alas, your view of Heaven and Hell is over simplified. You are literally reacting to a childish view of Heaven (which, unfortunately most so-called Christians never graduate from). You erect a false strawman, and then you congratulate yourself for efficiently dispatching it. Well, that strawman may deserve to be dispatched, but it is not Biblical Christianity.
Heaven is not a cushy retirement. It is not superficial concepts of wealth. It is not sitting on a cloud in a robe playing a harp. It is becoming a member of God's family and inheriting a role in running the entire universe - where there is a never ending supply of useful and rewarding work to be done.
Rather, as it is written: “- No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.”
It is a literal return to the world God originally created before men rebelled against Him.
Yes, the suffering of this world will be remembered no more, but that's not the Really Big Deal shown in bold below:
I thought you were already his children.
So besides running from pain you are also looking to inherit/reign the better world you are promised?
If you are all ruling, who will be ruled?
You want a kingdom all for yourself? How noble! Much grace!
What exactly to do with this inheritance? Whatever I want, or the usual whatever god wants?
Inheriting the world means that you can do without god's supervision, is that what it is?
I have no desire to rule anyone or by the side of anyone. I don't need to feel like I have a father either.
Still, no one can sell heaven to me. You can try ruling the world now, many are doing it, and they don't seem very happy to me. I've never had an inclination to impose my will on others.
If god doesn't like the job you are doing with your inheritance, do you not know he can take it from you? If you deny this then you accept there are things that god can't do.
God's promises are worth nothing, because he is not forced to deliver. He does whatever he wants and no one can stop that.
That's ok. Many are called but few are chosen. If the opportunity to serve God does not appeal to you on its own merits, you are not made of the right stuff. Jesus never went after those who played hard to get.
Giving value to yourself the way a zebra gives value to herself on the Serengeti plain. "I'll make the rules for what the lions can do", she says!
Not playing hard to get but giving value to myself. I deserve better than fear and think all of you do too. I don't need to convince myself that I belong, I know I do, I don't need someone to tell me that I am chosen to feel loved.
Not necessarily, but if it helps you to be saved and avoid eternal damnation then for sure I want you to be scared to death until you're saved.
Reason is (strictly speaking) that there is no third option. In long-term perspective there is no third place to live. There are just two houses regardless to your imagination. Today you've enjoyed the Earth but you have no guarantee for tomorrow. And bad news is unless you're a saint or saved by Jesus, hell is a a default.
Jesus is great, that's why. But for you not knowing Him yet, imagine Earth without flaws, people without fear and killer instincts. You think you'll not be able to enjoy it without darkness? Don't worry, you will be aware of great darkness you've escaped by a hair's breadth.
I hope for your own good I've convinced you. If not you check these testimonies of people who know more about given subject, it might be an eye opener and a turning point for you. Take care brother.
So basically the end justifies the means and there are only two options because the bible says so, and the bible is true because the bible says so. And again, you are choosing one thing because you believe the alternative is worse, not because of the merits of what you are coerced to select.
You can throw words like great and good around, but until they are backed by something else they remain just that, words.
It's not it's like: it is in Bible and therefore it must be true. Rather there is truth and the Bible describes it so we can be aware of it. Actually it's great advantage we have it in this time, for most centuries Bible was either not available for most people or even forbidden book. But if you take it seriously, you'll benefit from it hugely. But you can and really should have your own experience and it's impossible to get some just by lazy thinking or discussing. Even Bible reading without application will not help you much. Once you stop thinking and start really and seriously following what it says you will know for yourself. And you're right, my words are just a words for you (even though you can benefit from them a lot if you take them seriously), but to me, my words are experiential. And you also need your own experience to build your own confidence in this matter. The other option is obvious, you can live this short life here in this false comfort of "knowing" better up to the moment when you are not able to change anything anymore.
stop thinking and start really and seriously following
Good subject. I'm spiritual being having an earthly experience. All that you see around you just is. There's 2 worlds inside this one world. Nature and taming nature, which one is easiest to live under and which makes your life easier? Pick one and that's the one you will worship. Nature's god will provide for you if you ask but that takes a leap of faith, most won't go that way because that is harder. Some people know what i'm talking about, but most don't want to be bothered by it because then they would have to know the truth. They'll run the other way from the truth, because they would have to face it and then make critical decisions about what they are doing in their own lives. Long story short, Love your neighbors as you love yourself and love Yah, natures God with all your heart mind and spirit and that's all you have to do.