Is religion a curse or blessing in our modern day society?

in #religion6 years ago (edited)


I'm not sure if that's a yes or no question (i dont see many yes or no questions in anything personally, life is analogue, not digital, as quantum mechanics should point out since it goes by approximation and probability, not by exact numbers, a bit sad for people who need to classify everything in square spreadsheet boxes and strict set numbers but mwell...)

maybe you refer to Karl Marx

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people

or other heavies like Friedrich Nietschze

I call Christianity the one great curse, the one great intrinsic depravity, and the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are venomous enough, or secret, subterranean and small enough - I call it the one immortal blemish on the human race.

or the hipocrisy that often comes with it as Einstein so well described

"If this being is omnipotent, then every occurrence, including every human action, every human thought, and every human feeling and aspiration is also His work; how is it possible to think of holding men responsible for their deeds and thoughts before such an almighty Being? In giving out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing judgment on Himself. How can this be combined with the goodness and righteousness ascribed to Him?" - Albert Einstein, "Out Of My Later Years"

practical views like the great French general Bonaparte

Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.

I could turn this into a 20page quotefest but that wouldnt include my personal answer ofcourse.

First of all i would like to discern. What is religion when people talk about it?

In this case i can only assume the question relates to the current day struggle between the three main monotheist factions : christianity, judaism and islam

When i was studying socio-cultural work in another life i had this teacher, a moroccan woman who studied something called comparative religion at university, she taught cultural history and taught me a lot, including something i (and i assume many people) didnt know

those three all have the same roots .. something most present day believers probably don't want to admit, especially the fanatics, but historically it's all true AND proven.

The fact that it's called Abrahamic and stems basically from proto-judaism probably goes down even worse, especially with fanatic christians and i wouldn't even want to mention that within two kilometres of a jihadi :)

Alas, as she was a muslim herself and the university degree was very real (they didnt really accept 'in the box' teachers there much , everyone was a bit of a weirdow (which, according to Dali should be called ab-normal)
Basically they stem from one tribe where factions arose disputing what "the one true god was"
Quite some time before jesus or muhammad, so if you look at it like that the fight has been going on for the biggest part of modern history (say that's the past 2000 to 4000 years :)

One would like to say no more slaughter has been caused throughout history than in the name of the three "one true" gods , despite that, in all their omnipotence none of them has decided to interfere, which makes any god look like either absent or sadistic at times.

But think further, the sumerians, +/- 4000BC , almost at the start of whats seen as written history had their fair share of human sacrifice , so did the aztecs and those who came before them. The egyptians didnt care much for it , islam is officially opposed to it although the interpretation of "by the sword" seems to be taken a bit literally by some these days, there's examples of human sacrifice in the christian bible.

Religious bloodshed is nothing new . The vikings , so popular in the past years on television and the screen, probably one of the most fatalistic filosophies ever, sacrificed and probably considered it an honour. As they were raised to not fear death most probably wouldnt even flinch at the thought. (vikings had a strong sense of pre-destination so it didnt really matter since if it happened it was the will of the gods anyway)

Creating gods in your image, a lot of gods depict local culture, for instance the greek and roman pantheon , which are basically a copy of each other, had a grand family of tricksters, jokers, spiteful vengeful psychopaths, adulterers and in general all-powerful beings who loved to play with their subjects.

As "the barbarians" finally succeeded in taking down the decadent empire, the core of it, the emperors and nobility actually adapted and adopted christianity and til today still have vast influence across the world, from their own state, the vatican .. which does not pay taxes, but even til today receives money from everywhere (including the united states if i'm not mistaken)

sec .... nope, i am not mistaken

That's right, your pope there is actually the last emperor of rome, from saint augustine til now, still the roman empire spreads its wings across the planet

Hindus have a very complex pantheon, about a million gods, seen as polytheism but in fact, every single god is an "aspect" of the one

probably the same as the one buddhism refers to. Where buddhism wouldn't be exactly a relgion but more like a filosophy although the buddha (which literally means the enlightened one) is in some parts considered to be "the one"(god) and allmighty
(hinduism actually contains thousands of years old explanations that could very well relate to modern day cosmology with Ka-li at the center of the universe both creating and destroying like the biggest blazar or quasar at the heart of the galaxy would be, and much much more ... there's also quite some similarity between the hindu Yugas and the mayan 'prophecies' but lets not go into that right here)

A strange thing about buddhism imo is the concept of enlightenment and reaching it, its been coloured ofcourse , much through the sixties as religion of love, but those stoners saw everything as a religion of love , that goes without saying.
In fact to achieve enlightenment, pardon my french, is to give up the giving of all f*cks. If you care you can't achieve nirvana, for good or bad, if there is anything here to draw you back, you can not stay in the state of nirvana (not geopolitically defined ofcourse) it is in fact abondoning all links with the world so that's a bit of a contradiction there, also "in order to gain anything you must lose everything" is spoken from the perspective of a spoiled prince who HAD everything and gave it up after finding out, despite his fathers attempts at sheltering him that people suffer, get diseased , and die (thats almost the very root from which Siddharta set off on his journey, look it up if you like)

All kinds of religion, there's Taoism , which is quite the complex bit, mostly in China . You have shinto in japan, more or less rooted in nature worship, attributing souls to about everything, trees, rocks, mount fuji is "fuji-san" which is a polite suffix you add to a PERSONs name.

rastafari , which is also based on abrahamic principles, but also believing their great emperor Haile Selassie (Ras Tafari) was of divine nature...

and more

There's more than i'm willing to go into and lets ofcourse not forget the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster which started as a joke, like Dogecoin but is actually officially and legally recognized in some places.

Most of these religions dont make much world news because most religions dont actually cause worldwide wars and bloodshed ... you could say there's an exception with buddhism , mostly in Myanmar , mostly led by the eccentric figure of Ashin Wirathu ... since its an opposition to the rise of forced islam, it remains debatable ofcourse, but the buddha himself clearly forbids any act of violence (thats why you have the swords of the buddha ... the man was always picking fights but never finishing them wink )

SO

after the small intro to provide a bit of a relativistic setting as to what relgion might be ...

maybe a few lines of my own opinion ?

Personally (and i say that a lot) i dont believe in gods who care , i always claim to be polytheist agnostic by which i mean that neither believe nor deny the existence of one or more '"supreme beings" simply because i don't know. I don't believe without meeting one, but i won't discard it because i havent seen one. It's very well possible that the whole universe from the big bang is just a physical reaction but until proven otherwise, it's also possible "the ancients" (lets call it that) came from their dimension and did an experiment, banged something big and let the system ride for some billions of years, until all matter is sucked up back into black holse, growing ever more massive and supermassive, after which they can come back and unzip their cosmic zipfiles ... barring hawking radiation, no information gets lost so a black hole could be seen as gathering information but the fenomenon of blazars as recently quite well expained by @lemouth (and other -zars ... plenty of them) makes them look more like a recycling factory, gobbling up everything and then spitting out what it cant digest ... like that mental disease people get when they start over-eating and then purge it all out.

i do not know the truth it can be either this or that or anything between. I feel an atheist is dogmatic just like a believer simply by rejecting without proof, while a believer accepts without proof, pretty much the same to me :)

The present day looks like major religious turmoil and most people would point at islam, while islam in fact is in itself divided into factions who would bite each others head of and a lot of the time fanatic christians who would shotgun abortion doctors are left out.
Consider the spanish inquisition in the dark ages, there's not much difference, you could say islam is barely 900 years old (if at all, im not the numbers guy) while christianity is 2000 so its a process of evolution. Which again brings to mind the respectable ago of hinduism (you dont hear much about hindus invading countries to lop off heads these days) and buddhism after that. If age is a pointer and its an evolution then that might mean something.

Thing is, even with the current war, its only a small fraction of muslims who make all the noise, most are simply terrified by their own brethren (and sisters) and dont speak up and i think thats the big problem. With all the kneejerk reactions on simply mentioning the name of the prophet, the best and maybe only way to stop it would be for muslims themselves to reject fanaticism and open up to a more polytheist point of view (it wasnt always like this) where god is a concept that can take many forms (as in hinduism in fact), not just one symbol for male dictatorship (like the christian god in the feudal era was very convenient as a male father figure, "obey THE LORD" , literally ...)

I also think its churches that are the problem, im totally down with the dalai lama on that, relgion needs no temples since it lives in the heart and the soul. There might be need for "wise men" (priests/monks) to lend aid in moral guidance but everything else is worldly, churches are worldly, the vatican .. well can there be anything more worldly ?
As for the jihad (translates as the end of days) , not every imam preaches jihad, there's plenty who oppose it , but ofcourse those people are just as much under attack as someone who would deny the fact that Allah is the one true god (as was the dispute originally thousands of years ago)

Religion is personal and a choice, the moment it gets forced it is because HUMANS want to use it to get power , you can pray to whatever god you like whenever and wherever you like. If you consider it omnipotent there's no need to do it in a church, there's no need to give your wage to some preaching fanatic either and there's certainly no need to push it on someone else, after all

god is allmighty right ? why would he need your help?

Some people need it, some don't . If you need it you need it, if it gives you support, good, if you feel the need to force someone else to find support in it

BAD

hmmm

2:30 am ... i want to do something on my votersworthonpost script still tonight so i think i'll leave it here, should be good for another 50 cents today then

do you like fish ?

-- i like fish ...

(someone needs to meme that, that was awfully funny seeing the price there)

me : https://steemit.com/introduction/@rudyardcatling/rudyardcatling-signature-post-20180719

thanks, i hope you found something interesting in it :))

owh , last [EDIT] ... allow me one more quote from one of my all-time favourite books i didnt get to mention in the last question :

*“Faith in faith' he answered himself.
'It isn't necessary to have something to believe in.
It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief.”
Gully Foyle (Alfred Bester, The Stars My Destination)

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I am a muslim and I don't disagree with you @rudyardcatling 😉 your thought is interesting. I recite Alquran everyday and found many history that need to be learnt. I respected your choice for polytheist agnostic👍 after more than a thousand year.. alquran the only authentic text that nobody tried to change it contents, admitted there're Abraham, Moses, David and Isa or Mesiah too.

All human are born with free will and it's their choice to believe or not though God gave them the proofs about his existences, IMHO. Thanks for sharing anyway..😉

i think the world needs more muslims like you @cicisaja , it certainly would be a better place than it is now ... i fear there's factions in every main religion that interpret their own scripture according to their need, in order to allow them to do whatever thay want and pursue their wordly need (to the extreme as we have clearly seen in the last 10-20 years) , i know muhammad the prophet was born in and from a period of turmoil (historically) and there was a massive reaction to the invasion of christianity, but to take those words or actually parts and paragraphs of them, LITERALLY into 2018 ?

i'm not sure that's what he would have intended but i'm not a muslim and i'm certainly not going to speak for one of the great teachers from modern history (i consider "modern history" somewhat the last 3000 to 4000 years, opinions differ, lol)

if you're a free thinker (which is possible for a believer too, to have an inquisitive nature on reality) and you like comparative theology i might recommend a book on the matter i liked a whole lot : Confucius, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad

it puts four of the great teachers and their lives in a comparison over the course of several (i assume university-level) courses (but that shouldnt be a problem if you're used to interpreting a work like the quran at deep level)

even better to see you're a woman there, to break the stereotype :) ... i dont know if you want this but i would like very much if you allow me to ask questions if i feel the need, i wouldnt mind having a muslim in my circles who is not extreme and knows a lot about the texts .... but that's only if you want to ofcourse, the more i understand the more i can understand :)

thanks a lot for your reply, i really appreciate it

Well.. I will read the book as soon as I have time after preparing my Father In Law to do Hajj next week. I love Muhammad more than others in the world though I'vr never met him before, I don't know why I always got the teary eyes whenever I remember or heard story about him too.

Yeah.. I agree with you too about the factions .. Muhammad himself reminded the future ummah about it.. there will be 70 factions in Muslim and Only one which really straight and true. So I interpreted it as a message to find the truth through science, conscience, knowledge and research.. at least for yourself and tolerate others as long as it wouldn't guide you to a different path.

I don't have any words to lecturing you about Islam, that's why we can discuss not debating on something we clearly knew that we have different perspectives about it. Would be glad to make another comment later when I have time. Thank you @rudyardcatling

that's great

the last thing i'm looking for is lectures , i really want clear answers from clear minds , if you look at history the middle east where it all came from had a rich scientific culture and more, mathematics, filosophy, art, you name it , i guess everybody's looking to lift the veil on reality in their own way, wether through religion or science, or a blend in both, ... i think its completely possible to see the hand of god or gods in both astrophysics and quantum mechanics, but i completely understand people who feel the need to prove that it's all mechanical from the start, its from debate and discusison new ideas are born and old ideas get rejected or modified.

In fact, at the core of the physical universe you could say, the whole thing was created "under pressure" in a very small amount of time and has been going on on friction since then for billions of years, it almost looks like its been directed, the way it all fits together, but there's so much mystery left and i hope there will be for a while. What is life without mystery ? Imagine all be said and done , then there's nothing left to do ... that would be a boring , if eternal , life lol ...

I'm not sure about hajj, back when i was in my last school there was a section in cultural history on islam, if i remember correctly hajj is one of the five pillars ... BUT , my first thought was : the obligation to give to the poor , but that is 'zekat' right (sorry if i misspelled) ... hajj is the pilgrimage?

well, in the book i linked it says somewhere that one of muhammads first wives (in order of importance i assume, i dont know the traditions of those day) said that he did not just explain the quran but he WAS quran, he lived it instead of preaching it which is probably what made him one of the great teachers of history

good to have you in the circles @cicisaja ... i try to reply to every single comment allthough it sometimes takes a day, sometimes two, so if i dont right away dont worry, i will soon enough haha

how do you say that ?

maashallah ? or simply selam ?

Salaam ✋ that's all..
Well.. it's gonna be a long discussion.. but I like it😉 yeah zakat is have the same meaning with charity but there's an exact counting system to collect it and there're an explanation list who deserved to receive it too😊 not everyone can do zakat except for zakat fitrah.. uhmm I'll check the right words later. And Hajj.. yes it's pilgrimage.

About the mystery and the creation process of the world. Have you ever think about why we human and animals have brains but doesn't live the same life? I mean birds don't go to church for praying but muslim can pray anywhere depends on condition and they still have to pray (except for women who in her period or after deliver a baby? Hahaha.. don't think about it ...😆 I can't find the better examples with so many things in my to do list right now.

I think that the best and beautiful organ that God created in human body is the brain with so many complicated but amazing nerve system. Why would God create brain if He knows that human will be so smart then think themselves better than God? I questioned myself as a muslim sometimes, I've been told about you can learn and search for anything on earth (and its seven layers in) and on the sky (and its seven layers up) but don't questioning what is God made from 😊 then.. I promise God everyday in my prays that I swear There's no other God but Him, and who should proof that? Him or I? So.. it 's my mission to proof that Only Him for me. When I'm too busy to proof His existences to myself.. how can I hurt or insult or exploit another creatures He made that probably on the same mission as I am? Perhaps, This won't answer any of you questions, Rudy. But I do believe that.. He Gave me brain to think about His greatness and to be grateful for His kindness whilst He never need it from me.

Alquran did mentioned about the process of earth and universe and not a single word stopped us from thinking how's that happened. I found so many verses that ended with a question "why don't you think about it?" In alquran after a long explanation about history of the prophets before Muhammad.

As a muslim I've been told to believe in Mazmur/zabur for David, Torah for Moses and Bible/injil for Isa the Mesiah and there're more ... unwritten commandements for Abraham and his predessors like Isaac, Samuel/Ismail, jacob/israil, Josef and.. so on. But...since Alquran is the latest version and a complete version of all those holy book and suhuf, I have no other option but use it as the best guidance (if only I could meet Muhammad😢)

Ooh yes, I read about buddhism and Hindu too.. well Indonesia is a country who accept all religions as long as the worshippers believe in God, no matters how you called God, Allah, Jesus, etc.. but you can't be an atheist one to live in Indonesia😆 why? It is the foundation and constitutionally abiding rules. But.. nobody hates you if you don't do any religious activities..as long as you're not disturbing others. But.. that's not really implemented too😂 if you a jihadis and probably a terorist.. as long as you worship God, you can live freely.

So.. what's all about? It's about being a human and your relationship with other creatures according to your guidance and beliefs, use your most valuable gift from God (if you believe in God, I have no idea if you're not.. it's your choice) "The Brain".

Hey Rudy..if i said "you" it don't mean to appoint to you.. but also for myself and other readers.

ofcourse, there are no secrets on the blockchain, everything on it is visible to everyone, no need to explain that. I thought it might be Indonesia, i have spoken to other people living there and Indonesia seems to allow a bit more leeway than a lot of other countries, probably exactly because you have so many different religions and philosophies packed together in one place.
Intolerance would make it unlivable.
Don't worry about long replies, i tend not to speak in one-liners either, besides a discussion is like pillow talk, the longer the better , if you pardon my french hahah.

I would like to hear more about who is supposed to give alms (or allowed ?) and who is eligible to receive them? You're saying it's not for everyone ? I thought it was a duty for all muslims to share to the less fortunate , which is why i always wondered why, when in brussels, i mainly see belgians OR muslim women who are begging in the street, i thought it was the duty of the community to provide for them. But a foreign ghetto is not comparable to a land of origin. If you go to Morocco the mentaliity is completely different than you would get here. People who have migrated tend to flock together and stick more to tradition.
We had our share here with sharia for belgium, and not a pleasant one, mind you, and as i understand even in Indonesia you have jihadis spreading terror. That's the problem right there, it's them who create islamophobia all across the world.
You have a message of peace and tolerance, as you say, you believe Allah to be the one true god, so he (can you tell me why god is always a "he"? i think thats weird, i thought gods would be genderless, simply because they dont need to be, but maybe that's just the way of humans to interpret things beyond comprehension. Try to give it a "familiar" face.
If you believe in one god then that god has indeed created all , every human and every animal, so everything would be gods creatures, thats basically very similar to the original message of christianity (i can say i'm a christian either but people here get baptised as a baby , you dont get much choice in the matter, but i dont really go to church or anything, not an atheist but well, i already explained that in the post, its what made you react haha)
So if its all gods creatures why and how would you hurt any of them ... that's almost buddhist :)
There's a lot of similarites between the worlds main philosophies and teachings but people tend to focus on the difference and its mostly people who use the rhetoric to gain or to stay in power, isnt it?

I heard its forbidden to depict human faces too, ni paintings and such ... but i see a lot of muslims taking fotos so is that true ? You hear a lot but you never know until you can ask from someone who knows, right?

don't feel the need to reply right away lol, there's no rush, i always check my messages a few days behind to see if i didnt miss any so whatever you like and at your leisure :)

I would like to hear more about who is supposed to give alms (or allowed ?) and who is eligible to receive them? You're saying it's not for everyone ? I thought it was a duty for all muslims to share to the less fortunate , which is why i always wondered why,

zakat is for 8 group of people which are the poor and poorest, the amil or officer who collect the zakat, those who just become muslim or mualaf, to freed the slaves, those who is in big debt, those who fight for Allah (Jihad) and those who is on the journey to learn Islam or any general education for the sake of Islam or Ibnu sabil.

so zakat is organized in an institution, and not all muslim have the obligation to pay the zakat, for example: iy I have golden jewelry less than 86 grams in a year, I don't have to pay 2,5% of it for asset zakat. (zakat maal), and If my total annual earns didn't reach the same total amount similar to 86 grams gold, I don't have to pay 2,5% of it to the zakat institution, and there're different rules implemented on agriculture and livestock. But, When I used to earns about 400 USD/month from my job, I kept pay 2,5% of it to the zakat institution monthly and My Brother will pay 2,5% from his rice field right after the harvest time to the mosque officer in his village. Though all muslim must pay zakat if they meet the requirement condition, not everyone do it willingly.

yes, the duty os the muslim not include to share with the less fortune but we're told to do so, willingnes is the key. all men should earns and share it with his close family and relatives including the less fortune neighbour, still..."willingness" is the key. As Muslim we were told not to beg from human, a hand that giving is better than a hand that receiving

as you say, you believe Allah to be the one true god, so he (can you tell me why god is always a "he"? i think thats weird, i thought gods would be genderless, simply because they dont need to be, but maybe that's just the way of humans to interpret things beyond comprehension. Try to give it a "familiar" face.

well.. it's hard to find the right word to say other word than Allah, in Bahasa Indonesia, we are easily find many words such as "The Almighty, The strongest, The Glorious, The Wiser" or just say "DIA" when translated to English become He or She.

There's a lot of similarites between the worlds main philosophies and teachings but people tend to focus on the difference and its mostly people who use the rhetoric to gain or to stay in power, isnt it?

My Dear Friend @rudyardcatling : do you know who is the first philosopher in the world who seek for Allah or God with all his heart? He was Abraham or Ibrahim in my language. How can Muhammad knew about Him? he never encountered Buddha or Isa the Mesiah, Allah told him through Gabriel/Jibril and then written in Alquran by his friends. I read Alquran and somehow there's a verse about Allah gifted a privilege to some people to understand the text easily and make a good interpretation about it then Implements the text in life. I know that I'm not the one of many people who got the privileges. But I can ask Allah anything, including the gift to understand the text. anyone has the same privileges to ask Allah anything, no matter what your religions are. as a muslim we're also has many forbidden things such as being ignorant, being arrogant and being stupid, lazy and many more, but again...human born with a free will, they can choose what they want to believe or not.

No.. I've never read about any forbidden to depict human faces, except for Muhammad, to prevent his worshippers from making him as a new God beside Allah. that's all I know. this is going to be a long discussion and I need to read more books written by the Imams .. hahahaha. you know about the factions right? the student of the imams and other thinkers who made those factions emerged. So, to prevent myself from being a stupid muslim, I read Alquran and study hard to understand the meaning and read the compilation of Muhammad's explanation or hadith by Bukhari and Muslim. though I read any interesting books by other imams, but my main refferences only 2, Al Quran and Hadith. I have teachers just to ask some parts that's hard to understand and limited information in Alquran.

anyway, zakat is not especially for the muslims, from Alquran I found that the Torah also mentioned Zakat and even more easy to understand in bibble/injil. I told you before, Alquran is the latest and last version of all the holybooks that ever existed in the religions history. If in torah or bible no explanation about how much you should share from your asset as zakat, but Al Qurán explained it.

look.. I am lecturing you now... hahahahahaha, Stop Me, Please!

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Hi @rudyardcatling

Religion is nothing but old-school (outdated) ways of ruling population. It's not as effective as it has been. It is tool that allows powerful to control the masses. So it could be considered evil.

But at the same time for many it gives strength when they need it. Im not a believer and Im fully aware that it's easier to die if you have faith. I know that by the end of my life I will suffer and I will cry and probably even pray. I may turn to god at some point. Because religion helps us copy when our life is about to end.

This is the biggest advantage of religion.

i will get to the replying tonight ... i'll just give acte de présence so no one thinks im ignoring it for the day :D

“Faith in faith' he answered himself.
'It isn't necessary to have something to believe in.
It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief.”
Gully Foyle (Alfred Bester, The Stars My Destination)

full reply later sorry, need catfood :p

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