RE: Entropy vs Christ (A scientific basis for Jesus Christ Part II)
I am a Lutheran, but also a devout believer in science. That being said, just because you can't see something or prove it with scientific formulae doesn't mean it isn't real. Religion and science are on a collision course as we learn more about our world and universe. Who's to say that "God" isn't an alien being that "created" mankind in his image through genetic manipulation? Maybe I'm crazy for saying that. Or maybe it's even crazier to think that with all the billions of inhabitable planets in the galaxy, there are no life forms more advanced than our own. I love this discussion you've started, and remember, many of the great scientific advancements were initially discredited by the church as blasphemy. Religion and science are advancing together
Truth will always gravitate toward truth whether discovered empirically or "revealed"
Very wise words
would you mind elaborating? the point of empiricism is to give us an unshakable foundation of truth, so to speak. if i drop acid and say that the truth was "revealed" to me, how can that carry any weight without any empirical evidence to back it up?
Exactly... revealed truth should not contradict empirical evidence if there is enough of the latter.
There's no stopping the Truth!
Are you open to the idea that the truth may not involve any god?
@gavvet can we help this woman https://steemit.com/life/@juvyjabian/to-kind-hearted-steemit-this-woman-suffering-from-unknown-skin-disease-for-20-yrs
@juvyjabian, sounds interesting, I'll have to check it out.
Certainly we can help. Wonder what help may be possible. Will read the post later. Couldn't open it on my computer at this moment. Have learned about numerous disease, having my own to learn about as well.
I'm not sure that even means anything.
Religion is pointing out the author of life and redeemer and also the savior and the creator but that wont save the people.
Science is believing what is seen, if you do not see anything that cannot be the science which always seeks the proof.
where as the faith, beyond the religion and science, hoping the unseen world i.e heaven, which is real. the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is overcoming the world, which is filled with the lust of eyes, and lust of flesh, and the pride of Life.
Faith is the substance of the things hoped for, and an evidence of unseen thing.
people make a study and know about the God in the theology or divinity studies for which they need some academic qualifications, but the real devotee, know God personally,who doesn't need any academic qualification they experienced the God and had intimate relation with him just by faith in the Jesus Christ and the word of God. by the wisdom of the world , the wise and the prudent knew not God. the God had made the wisdom of the world foolish and, destroyed the wisdom of the wise even.
"it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe the Jesus and the work on Calvary"
many scribes and, pharisees of the Jesus days, failed the to recognize the works of the Holy Spirit, received not the Jesus as their God and savior. Beyond that, they accused Jesus as the head of the Beelzebul. then Jesus warned them, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be for given unto men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men neither in this world nor the world to come. that is why, this forgiveness of their sin must be proclaimed in the entire universe.
so the word of God is fire. preach it with the sense of urgency. God be with you sir!
"Religion is pointing out the author of life and redeemer and also the savior and the creator but that wont save the people."
You are jumping the gun a little. It hasn't been established there is an author of life and redeemer or savior.
You've put much stock in faith but why is it a virtue? If you value truth, faith is a hindrance.
we all like the truth but we failed to practice it, and live upon that. why because all human beings are in the image of the God but our inward built in character is satanic, devilish, and evil. we try to be truthful, faithful but we lairs and unfaithful. we are told not to trust the men, kings but the Lord God Almighty and His word. then you will be fruitful. so believe the Jesus Christ and The Bible. get saved.
Why should I believe the bible is true? Why should I believe the god of the bible exists? Why do you not believe in Zeus, Odin or the countless other gods invented by humanity?
You read the Bible and either find it to be credible or you don't. There is plenty of evidence that we have an accurate record of what the authors wrote. Now, do you believe the authors?
You won't know unless you apply yourself and actually want to find God. If you don't want to find Him, you won't.
@stan reading the bible alone is completely insufficient to establish its credibility. There is massive lack of evidence for the extraordinary claims made.
If by "genetic manipulation" you mean "created from earth", I totally agree ! :)
Here is the verse from Genesis:
“Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.”
Genesis 2:7 NIV
http://bible.com/111/gen.2.7.niv
Also the Hebrew word for man (adam) might be related to the Hebrew word for ground (adamah) according to New International Version comments.
Be blessed !
You can't prove a negative. Unless the world is a vast simulation and Schrodinger's Cat is taken to the extreme... atoms did not suddenly exist when we observed them. Electricity did not pop into existence when we observed it. X-rays did not pop into existence only because we had a machine.
Scientists who disbelieve something simply because it has not been measured are closing the door to wonder.
It is true that something they cannot measure may not exist, yet as the examples I provided... sometimes they do. Yet sometimes they don't.
As to your take on God. It is so nebulous and ultimately incomprehensible to us that it literally could be MANY things and we'd have trouble proving/or disproving.
"Scientists who disbelieve something simply because it has not been measured are closing the door to wonder."
They are also purposefully closing the door to falsehoods and thereby protecting the integrity of their held beliefs. What is more valuable to you, wonder or truth? Should we believe in leprechauns or anything else someone could easily fabricate just because we can't prove a negative? That doesn't seem like a very practical way to function.
Believing everything imaginable exists is not the null hypothesis.
I don't believe everything imaginable exists. I also don't believe we've measured everything, or likely ever will.
Pretty simple use the scientific method. It doesn't say anything about something not existing because it has not been measured. It really only deals with things we can measure.
So closing mind isn't scientific either. Might as well be a religion. ;)
You don't have to close your mind to not believe something for which there is no evidence. If you value holding true beliefs, believing in something without reason would be foolish.
You keep saying "there is no evidence". That is false.
There is ton's of evidence. There is no absolute "proof".
But court cases are decided all the time without "proof".
The archeological records that exist exceed all other sources of historical information in quality and quantity.
So, we have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that real, credible eyewitnesses observed Jesus do and say amazing things.
Now you, the jury, need to decide whether they are credible or not.
No @stan there is not a ton of evidence. There is a massive lack of evidence.
Nesting limit reached
I didn't say I believed it. I said science could not prove or disprove it. I am an atheist / deist.He likely did not see your latest response since you replied to me, and not @stan.
You'd be surprised at how observant he is.
"just because you can't see something or prove it with scientific formulae blabla"
Yeah well this isn't to scientific to proof or disproof such claim, but rather to the people who claim it.
Damn... for someone who says you are a "devout believer in science", you should open once in a while a book of philosophy of science, just to see how it works...
And most of what you wrote here would be categorized by the skeptical enquirer (and alike) as fallacies.
Well if your Alien theory is right then the bible would be wrong. Can you please elaborate on how religion is advancing? It would appear religion is continuously just yielding ground to science as we understand more.
I don't think there is any ground that the Bible has yielded to Science.
Certainly there are extra-biblical claims that certain religious organizations have made that they have had to back down on - like "the earth is the center of the universe" and so on, but nowhere does the Bible claim that (other than in poetic statements like even scientists may make about "sunrise" and "sunset" and other observer centric metaphors.)
The solar system, the shape of the planet, noah's ark. These are all things the bible/religion has yielded to science. Labeling these things "observer centric metaphors" proves my point. These were not considered metaphors at one time but that ground has been yielded to science.
Do you have a reference to where the Bible makes a false claim that is not merely a metaphor?
Here's what it has to say about the shape of the planet:
@stan You are loading the question. Envoking metaphors proves my point. When go down the road of saying various claims are only metaphor you've also given up all credibility on divine origins. It makes the bible useless since it becomes impossible to decipher what is meant to be metaphor and what isn't.
Anyways I name a very strong part of the bible that has been disproven by multiple disciplines in science. Noah's ark is a laughable tale.
Yet Jesus Himself gives it total credibility:
So, the second most important thing he has promised to do is "just as it was in the days of Noah."
On the one hand you claim that some miracles are "too small" and have some natural explanation. But it they get "too big" then they are "laughable".
I'll double down on you. There was a point in Joshua where the Lord stopped the earth from rotating (without sloshing the Atlantic ocean across Africa at 1000 miles per hour). No problem. He did just for Joshua's convenience in winning a battle. (Joshua 10:12-13.
And in another case he made the earth rotate backwards (without spilling a drop) just to provide an impossible, supernatural sign for King Ahaz.
Laughable, right? Unless you understand that God has the same kind of control over every particle of this universe as if it was a simulation that he can simply, pause, rewind, or even restart at any point in time.
@stan you are just getting desperate now. Are you saying you believe in the story of Noah because of the claimed magic for which your god is capable? Again I'll have to see a reason to believe your god even exists let alone has these magical powers you claim before I can consider that to be any sort of valid answer.
What I do know is that there is absolutely no evidence to corroborate the story of Noah and we have plenty of scientific evidence it would be impossible.
I get there by a different path.
So, I don't need any other evidence. Given that Jesus demonstrated over and over again that He had complete mastery over the laws of physics, I believe that God can make something as big as a global flood happen without leaving a trace.
I do understand that if someone just tosses the story of Noah's ark in your lap without all that background, you might be a tad bit skeptical. :o)
Not necessarily, the bible doesn't say exactly who god is, except his name, which certainly isn't "God". It's Yeweh, or Jehova, depending on the translation. Interestingly enough, the Sumerians wrote about this thousands of years before biblical times, speaking of an alien race called the Anunnaki, and a "man from the sky" who's name was the Sumerian equivelant of Yeweh. They said he added parts of himself to us using machines. Now the bible says god came from the heavens, so why on earth would he not be an alien? He's certainly not from earth. I don't necessarily believe any of this, just a point of discussion. I loooove CONTROVERSY
Um, because God tells us he is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End and that he existed before anything else was made. He made the universe, He is not part of the universe.
Now perhaps he has created other beings superior to us in our present form and not bothered to tell us, but they are not God.
Ahh the ancient aliens hypothesis. It certainly makes for interesting reading and cool sci-fi like Stargate.