So, you are saying that God is loving, and He created us to worship Him for all eternity, and if we don't He will torture us for all eternity? I fail to see the love.
God gave man instructions on how to live, then let them choose a different way, then decided to kill them for it... Presumably they are still being tortured in Hell. Again, how is this loving?
And you say God created Lucifer to tempt us because "there must be opposition in all things," yet again this doesn't seem loving. Why would God stack the deck against people knowing that the ones who Lucifer fools will be tortured forever in Hell? And for believers, Lucifer has free reign to torture us here on Earth... So either way Lucifer wins, and Jesus only wins a small percentage of the time? Can't faith be proven in another way? How is this loving?
You say that most Christian churches are corrupt, which really begs the question: who is more powerful? Yet you say the correct answer is to "accept the Gift" Jesus gave us... What does that even mean? Do you just say thank you and you're out of Hell?
If I were to treat my children the way you say God treats us, people would rightly call me a monster, and lock me up. Maybe even execute me. Yet for you this seems loving?
We are created beings. There is no meaningful existence without God and there is no meaningful existence with him unless we are allowed to choose. Lucifer is also a created bring who made his choice already and now works against us and God allows it because it’s how we make the choice. Hell isnt a punishment it’s the result of your own choices.
If there is no meaningful existence without God, then what is hell, in your opinion?
Are you saying that we couldn't make any choices without Lucifer?
Okay, so if I let my kid walk into moving traffic, even though I could stop him, then it's okay because it's his choice? Hell is absolutely punishment, as you describe it, because God keeps people alive forever when He doesn't have to. That makes it His choice to continue the torture, so if it's not punishment then it's just a psychopath torturing lesser beings. Would you stand by and watch your kid torture the dog for hours because it pissed in the house? How about days? Years? Decades?
I don’t mean to sound arrogant but you’re missing one crucial point. God is not a created being and he is not our father in the sense that you describe.
Our children can exist without us but since we all are created beings, we cannot have any meaningful existence without God beyond this world. Again, He is not our father he is our creator. He doesn’t need us, we need him for that simple fact.
Sure, we can make choices without Lucifer, but he serves the purpose of purifying the faithful in this life and provides fame wealth and power to those that follow him, for the same purpose. To also provide opposition in this life.
So why did Jesus consistently call Him the "Father?" Is there ANY meaning that we can get from that?
Even if we throw that out, your description of God is monstrous.
Again, how is there existence in Hell without God?
The Trinity is God The Father, God the Son and God the Spirit. All three have no beginning and no end. He is our father too just not in the sense that you’re describing.
Plenty of the Host of Heaven followed Lucifer, I suppose because they agree with your thinking; that God’s plan is abhorrant. But they will be on the wrong side of history and you too if you think you can exist (have eternal joy) without the deity of God. You can believe you’re good and follow moral rules as best you can while creating no victims.... because.... morality; but you’re judging things on mortal standards.
Our souls are eternal, God created them but he’s not a respector of persons and he doesn’t want slaves.
I know that to follow him or go to hell isn’t much of a choice but he’s weeding out the tares and that’s what sinners are, tares to be discarded at the harvest.
Admit you’re a sinner, have faith in Christ that he will wipe our slates clean and be accepted by God I To heaven. Otherwise be a tare and be discarded to hell because no unclean thing can enter into heaven.
Where does the bible teach that souls are immortal without the Gift of God?
Don't assume too much about me, you don't know me, and you aren't God.
So you think saying some magic words gets you into heaven?
I’m not God and I don’t want to be God. But luciferians want to replace God with Lucifer.
Humanists want to replace God with Humanism.
Souls are eternal. I’m not going to quote scripture because it’s obvious about eternal torment of souls in Hell.
The words are only magic if you believe what you’re saying and have faith. Otherwise they’re lies.
Don’t lie to God. Smh.
So tell me about yourself then. I’m Obviously Christian Born Again and if you’ve read any of my other recent writing I’m a recent convert to Libertarianism except where God is concerned. What about you?
I was raised Catholic mostly, semi Protestant. Never really fit in with either. Libertarian-ish bordering on anarchist. I'm sure that's how I found your blog, but I can't remember specifically.
As for faith, I'm not sure where I stand right now. I'm having a hard time with faith because I don't actually see anyone that lives like Christ said His disciples would live, and I'm in the buckle of the Bible belt. Everyone I encounter on the Internet claiming to be Christian focuses all their time tearing other people down, and threatening people with torture, something I don't see Jesus doing in the Bible. I also don't see any evidence of the Apostles threatening people with torture if they don't convert in the New Testament.
It's a problem, because if people are claiming to be Christian, but they don't act like it, then by Jesus' own standard they aren't. It doesn't matter if they said some magic words, even if they meant it. Where is that in the Bible, anyway?
If there aren't any real followers of Jesus, and I can't find them, then how can a person know there is anything there? Jesus taught a lot of things in His life, almost none of which are ever talked about in churches, blogged about on Christian blogs, or discussed in Christian forums.
I also think that there is a misplaced emphasis on God as angry, vengeful, and wrathful. Jesus didn't talk about God like that. The main metaphor He used was God as a Father, but when you point out to "Christians" that a father would never act the way they say God does they just explain it away like it's of no import. Like you just did. How is the metaphor meaningful at all? In what way is God like a father if He intends to torture most of humanity for eternity? How does that square with the father in the parable of the prodigal son?
I think it doesn't at all. I think that the God who tortures is not a good God, and not worthy of praise. If that's God, then I think there is no God at all, and Jesus was just some crazy preacher who managed to pull off one of history's greatest tricks.
You really should look into what the bible teaches about the immortality of the soul. You say it's obvious, but it's NOT in the Bible. There are a couple of verses in Revelation, which everyone knows is not literal because the whole thing is a retelling of a prophetic vision, and you have a parable Jesus told, which is at least arguably not literal. The vast majority of scripture teaches the exact opposite, hundreds of times.
Just two: John 3:16, Romans 6:23. Both clearly say that eternal life is a gift of God, and both indicate not everyone receives the gift.