RE: Does the Teleology argument prove the existence of God?
An interesting thing. A lot of people do not argue that there is no God. Some of us simply argue that the God in the books of man is not it. :)
Even Elon Musk has proposed ideas I've shared with friends for some time. It might be all a simulation.
This all goes hand in hand with Deism by the way. (not Theism).
EDIT: And nothing you have proves Christ or any particular religion. It simply indicates intelligent design is plausible. It does not define that intelligent design as being Christ, being the God of Christianity, the Gods of the Native Americans, the Hindu Gods, the Egyptian Gods, the Greek Gods or anything of the sort. IF we do find proof for intelligent design that does not PROVE any particular religion. It only proves intelligent design. :) It also tells us nothing about that creator.
Thanks for the comment @dwinblood. And nice to meet you. I just followed you by the way. I fully agree with you that if we are able to proof intelligent design (which I still believe was proven with DNA, but still need to read the paper recommended by @liberosist's) it won't tell us anything about that creator. What it will do however is proof that there is a creator. Do you agree with this?
Yep. I am an atheist / deist... I keep saying that but no one has taken the bait for that contradiction.
Those are two things I can't prove... so I believe they are equally possible:
Either there has never been a state of nothingness.
or
There was nothing, and now there is something.
If the first is true then Atheism without a God works fine. We presume that there was a state of nothingness. Yet that may not be the case.
If the second is true then something had to start it, whether it was pushing a button on a computer simulation and walking away, or getting more directly involved. That would imply creation or some form of catalyzing event. It does not indicate a superior being. For all we know every time we fire up the Large Hadron Collider we may be causing a big bang event somewhere in a parallel universe (multi-verse/brane theory) in which case WE would be the creators of that universe without realizing it.
I do not think it is likely I'll ever be able to answer those two simple questions... thus, I am an atheist / deist. :P
So aren't you then Agnostic?
Haha. Right on queue. I was expecting that.
Not exactly. Agnostics still leave the possibility of written religions of man as being the truth. I honestly think all of those are fairy tales and kind of silly.
I believe either there is NO CREATION event and reality and the laws that make it up is part of an infinite cycle that has always existed (ATHEISM).
or
I believe that there was something and some catalyzing even caused the start of our current cycle. That something is the "creator" even if it was an accident. (Deism)
The common ground for both of these and why I can be equally comfortable in either state is the idea of REASON.
There was no creator, now use reason to live and view the world around you.
There was a creator, now use reason to live and view the world around you.
It ultimately comes down to a thought problem. It is a fun ultimate question to ponder, but ultimately the answer is unimportant to how I actually live my life. I still use reason and observer that around me. Whether a button was pushed at sometime in the past is ultimately irrelevant TO ME.
So I don't quite fit with agnosticism... though it'd somewhat close.
I've spent a lot of time researching various religions on www.religioustolerance.org I didn't even know about Deism until a decade or so ago when I stumbled upon it on that website. It's been around for a long time, and some prominent thinkers considered themselves as such, yet I'd never heard of it.
I am a Christian myself, but fully believe everybody have the right to their own opinion. I really enjoy these kind of discussions. I read your part 2 post where you mentioned that you do not need to be saved by a human, so I am not going there. I do however believe ad hope that you will experience the power of God during your life and that it will be a wonderful experience when this happens. Good luck going forward and hope to chat with you again.
Nice chatting to you @dwinblood.