Evil. Should we keep it simple and stop trying to put it in a box?
Evil is actually a very simple concept. We as humans tend to over complicate it. I do believe when we over complicate things it is usually to support some agenda. You see evil is small, and it can be large. It can be overt, or covert. It can be hidden inside of a seemingly innocent agenda.
I am on one of my religious writing phases today. So please bare with me. I am fine with people following what religion they want, until they force it upon others or they use religion to justify actions that apply force to others.
As such society is constantly imposing religion upon myself and others. In fact these days it is coming from more than one angle. So occasionally I will write some philosophical and religious themed posts as kind of a pressure relief valve to free some of the mental tension that builds up over the constant onslaught of religious terminology.
This is what inspired this post. I believe in evil. It exists. It is something that can be small or large, and all of us have the potential to do it. I do not feel the need to anthromorphize or deify evil. That is dumbing it down and at the same time over complicating it. Yet there historically is a great push to slap labels on evil. If you stick it in a box you can then blame everything on that box. You can ignore the evil that occurs and happens outside of that box.
The onslaught I am seeing lately is the terms Satanic, Luciferian, blah blah blah. We don't need some religious personification of evil in order to see evil. In fact I kind of think trying to personify it just fuels evil. It creates a target. It is much like the War on Terror is aimed at an emotion and thus a fools errand. The same is true of religions that choose to personify evil and then call everything done the fault of that personification. At that point things outside of the religion become evil, and many insane very evil things are DONE and committed due to the existence of that label. It is just as divisionary in nature as racism and other bigotry.
I am starting to believe that giving evil a label other than evil just opens the path for more evil.
I don't care about Luciferianism, Satanism, etc. I am not of any organized religious faith. Those to me are no different from an evil person committing acts of evil in the name of Santa Claus. It's still evil. Yet I don't need to fixate on Santa Claus.
So I realize a lot of people (including here on steemit) do believe in these personifications. Okay, I am not going to tell you that you are naive and you shouldn't do that. You could be right. Instead I would like to approach this in a different way that does not fixate on or attack any religion. I think you should likely be okay with that.
Solidarity
Tolerance and solidarity are important. Evil is in the act, not in the label. It would be nice if we could stop slapping labels on people based upon religious personifications. Instead of calling them Luciferians, Satanists, etc why not simply call them evil?
There is a reason I believe this is important. Lucifer, and Satan are personfications of specific religious faiths. There are EVIL people that have nothing to do with your religion. They don't believe it. In fact, if you are going to use those labels then the only people that they truly apply to are people who share that religion, and choose to embrace the evil side of the dichotomy rather than the good. So they are part of that religion.
There is a tendency of religions to refer to anyone outside of their faith as a specific label. This can be used to justify attacks and evil treatment of outsiders. Like I said the labels tend to promote evil, rather than fight it. This can be calling people pagans, heretics, apostates, satanists, luciferians, and infidels. A LOT of evil has been done by people wielding those labels. In fact, those that shout those things historically are likely responsible for far more evil than the people they claim to have been fighting.
Once we label and divide populations based upon some arbitrary box, we create an US vs THEM situation. Evil thrives in those situations.
Evil is Simple
I said evil is simple. Yet I didn't really define it. I am going to give you the current simple definition I can think of.
Using force against another person, or their property in a non-voluntary encounter.
Perhaps one word would suffice. Intolerance.
Or another. Mastery. As in "I am your master, you should do as I say".
For those who believe in free will
If your faith believes in free will and it was granted by your deities/gods. Who are you to take that free will away from people? If your faith believes in judgement in the afterlife. Who are you to judge people?
These are the types of thoughts that go through my mind. Plus the famous "Judge not, lest ye be judged."
You might not know, but your post is luciferian. So you should actually dig a little on those labels, for Luciferianism is not about worshipping a personification of evil.
Understanding the labels might actually help you understand better each ideology, and what's behind it, what other religions think about that ideology. And, taking into consideration all these new points of view you never thought about, get to a more mature position on your beliefs.
To the religious they can slap anything that doesn't fit within their religion into a box. I am familiar with the term Luciferian. I am also familiar with several different interpretations depending upon the individual that chooses to use it.
Such as assuming because the word Luciferian along with many other labels being mentioned is not known as a definition by a person. Thereby fixating on an assumption and seemingly missing the entire point.
It is not missing the point, such as if you really know what entails this post being potentially described as pertaining to luciferianism, then you really don't care about the "evil" behind it.
I KNOW, I KNOW. .. this leads to realizing that describing evil is not as simple as you put it. ( Just to make it clear: I'm not talking about being subjective on interpretations of the word, I would try to localize it on the different Christian religions' understanding of the concept of evil.)
If you do know what evil is behind your post (as per some Christian view), then you might've come to the conclusion it is not evil for you. That's alright, that's your belief.
As for me, I would certainly take those labels apart, and I would subject the meaning of the Luciferian religion as per its introduction as a religion in Latam (which was in Colombia). And I would insist on calling this post Luciferian and you Luciferianist just for taking the belief that this is not evil. And I believe that's alright: me using the label, you choosing not to deem it. It's about free will indeed.
SO simple question for you...
I used three things when I finally got around to defining evil:
Do you consider those things evil?
It is a good thing you used the word some.
I am very aware what some people consider evil. I've also seen the history showing the sheer amount of evil that such people can and often do commit in the path of "fighting evil" and pursuing their labels.
I believe actions speak far louder than words. Which is why I believe slapping labels on evil instead of just defining it with actions and leaving it at that turns it into something very subjective. It is open to interpretation which means people can be ambiguous about evil. They can decide something is not evil.
The three things I listed above are not ambiguous. I'd even say they are not subjective. They define it, and lend to it specific actions.
The labels on the other hand can be used foolishly (my opinion) to decide I am evil (you did not state) and in this case a Luciferian based upon a great deal of subjective assumptions. Like I said fertile breeding ground for evil. The labels simply foster intolerance, generalizations, and sometimes persecution.
I will say another thing. If I am neither of the Colombian Luciferian faith, nor any of the other variants of the so-called "light bringer" that arrived as that term entered Christianity. I am actually extremely well versed in Christianity, and Judaism that predates it. Yet that is purely from a scholarly point of view. Though I was raised as such and I did go to church, etc.
The key is I don't believe in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc. I guess you could say technically I am an Atheist as I am Anti-Theistic. Yet in reality I'd label myself a Deist. As I do believe there was likely some creator/catalyst event, I just think it is arrogant and foolish to believe our books with our very limited knowledge can define that thing. So I observe an use reason and do not seek to define what it is. And no that does not make me an agnostic either. I do care, I simply do not treat speculation as fact. I am also very interested so I do love to speculate. Yet I don't treat my speculations as fact and then attempt to tell people that my understanding of the universe is what they need to agree with.
I DO agree with a lot of things you said.
For you see you could call me a white man. Yet what if I am actually native american?
Using a label does not make that thing true. Thus, calling a person Luciferian because they fit within your subjective interpretation for what that means and if you believe Luciferians are evil does not mean that person is actually EVIL because you chose to give them a label.
Yet many people will ACT upon that label as though it were evil that they must fight. I contend that such acts are far more responsible for evil in the world than the label they are reacting to.
I am no Luciferian as I don't believe in it or any other revelation, prophecy, based religion.
You can call the sky RED if you want. You can even make yourself believe it is RED. I don't disagree with that.
What I do know is that evil is actually a very simple thing that is often overcomplicated. Like I said often with an AGENDA.
It is certianly true that evil can be a very simple thing. But it can also be true that it is not so simple.
Would you say that killing a kitten was evil?
What if the kitten was ill, and going to suffer until it died in agony?
You can easily see that moral dilemmas, the difficulty of ascertaining what is evil, do exist, and that evil is not simple. There are many other dilemmas I can pose, but I like kittens.
So I won't.
The world is full of natural predators. The life cycle can take care of many things. A lot of things that are part of nature I see as neither good or evil as they are simply survival and how ecology works out.
The thing is we as the tool users we are have kind of very much put ourselves outside of the natural ecology. This is why so many of these questions such as your kitten one even are a question at this day and age. There were times in the past where this same conversation might be about a child. The parents might leave them in the woods rather than care for them.
At that time it was more about survival. Was it evil?
In this day we would likely say yes. The child could not fend for itself. Thus, our morality dictates we should fend for them until they can.
Yet this apparently was not always true. There are different extremes to this depending historically and geographically where we look.
The other extreme is that people might do everything they can to save someone that could potentially only be extending that persons misery.
So the real question is should we respect nature, or do we consider ourselves aloof from it? I'd have a tough time and would likely try to nurse the kitten to health. Though these days most such animals end up at a vet and they are "put to sleep".
We as humans greatly disrupt the natural flow of things. Due to this the many things nature could easily answer we turn into large ethical dilemmas.
It is complex. Yet that is because we choose to make it complex. Nature itself is typically fairly simple in such matters.
That was a good question though. Thanks for asking. Definitely worth thinking about.
Here let me give you some clarification...
I mentioned numerous labels in the post...
Luciferians
Satanists
Heretics
Apostates
Infidels
Pagans
They were all examples. I did not go out of my way to define every one of those terms. I referred to the anthromorphizing and personfication of evil also as examples. Yet I did not specifically state it was a specific LABEL that did these things.
Nothing I wrote defined those terms. I simply stated to slap labels on a box is divisionary and seems to fuel evil. It becomes fertile breeding ground for intolerance and evil.
So you then latched onto Luciferian as a term and decided to ASSUME I don't know what it means. You are free to grab any of those other labels and make the same assumption, for my post was NOT about defining those words.
It was about defining evil. You also cannot infer that I do not know the definition of those other words from what I wrote, for defining them was not my goal and I did not specifically focus on any of them.
That's part of the problem. When thinking in terms of a box, one can be defensive and make assumptions to try to contain that world inside of a box.
Evil is very much active possibly inside the would be box, but often just as active outside, and sometimes more so.
Indeed I assumed. And my assumption was indeed to “defend” you before your own writing (from a Christian point of view; as you don't seem to be one, it would have not relevance for you). I meant you no harm, and I mean you no harm by saying this. Just to explain myself: Your not knowing the post could potentially be construed as Luciferian would imply you saw no evil on the eyes of a Christian. (So I, as a Christian, would say: it’s ok, he doesn’t think a Christian can find this to be evil. Let’s let them know, just for the sake of being useful.)
I would assume the latter because I was expecting your post to be comprehensive for all kinds of people reading here, including Christians; Why would I be expecting it? Because you certainly included Christianism by saying free will and actually addressing a message to those who believe in it. So I thought you would’ve expect Christianity to find this all reassuring while it’s not. But I mean, I don’t mind. It's good to have all kinds of people in here sharing their thoughts.
So I apologize if all this assuming and expecting was inappropriate for you.
Subjective interpretations can abound. I know there are over 60,000 denominations of Christianity in the U.S. (last time I looked... probably more now). I'd contend that someone could subectively say those who use the term Luciferian are not actually Christian. Why? Christ didn't use the term. Are not his teachings what Christianity supposedly is?
So if we latch onto a new label at a later date after the time of Christ and start vilifying it can we truly say that has anything to do with Christianity?
It was from after the time of Christ. It was not mentioned by Christ. Though perhaps there are some variants of the bible that I don't own (I collect them) where he did.
Yet we could extend this and state that essentially anything added to the faith after Christ was not strictly speaking Christian. This would also explain the sheer number of denominations.
Then we could spin that to say it is Christian by subjectively deciding that anything that is BASED however loosely upon the works of Christ is Christian.
Which gets really interesting because then you have some denominations viewing other denominations like the snake in the garden of Eden just as some might view the term luciferian. It's very interesting the tangled web that can be woven when people choose to use labels. This even applies to the term Christian itself.
For what is a Christian? Ask a cross section of them and your answers will vary and be heavily influenced by their denomination.
Ambiguous.
Thus, why I indicated labels over complicate evil. Evil is simple and it transcends all the trappings and labels we as subjective humans try to drape over it.
My initial problem with your assumption was that you assumed I was unfamiliar with the term Luciferian and several different definitions for it, when my article did not specifically seek to define ANY of those labels. It only sought to define evil in some simple form based upon ACTIONS.
I do agree with you on that as well. I do not consider your thoughts unwelcome, though just as you chose to challenge me and assume I don't know the definition of Luciferian then like wise I should be able to challenge you back. This is indeed good. You and I also are NOT in complete disagreement. We do agree on a lot of things. Ultimately I don't care what any label someone chooses to slap on EVIL means subjectively to them. I contend evil is in the actions, not the label. The outcome defines evil, not the label.
Look what happens when you try to put evil in a box!
Ooooh yeah, I forgot about that box.
Very similar to my thinking.. The worst kind of evil seems to be spreading in the West right now, and that is the evil of collectivism.
Collective ideologies are responsible for the very worst in human behavior... Pol Pot, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Idi-Armin, Kim Jong-Il, Lenin, Brezhnev, Kim IL Sung... All responsible for millions of deaths, in the name of the collective "good"..
Collectivism is a good word for it as ultimately collectivism tends to be about intolerance.
One of Ayn Rand's best quotes, "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."
Collectivism claims to embrace everyone, but by definition is against the individual. Since society is made up of individuals, it is an ideology that is always doomed to fail..
Well said. I remember seeing Rand saying that but I had forgotten. Thank you. Yes, I am a fan of Ayn Rand's works.
some things are just right and wrong. Perhaps evil is what is considered wrong according to what society/upbringing says. The pagans used to do human sacrifice to their gods. Perhaps not to comply and not believe were deemed "evil". To us, today we would deem it as evil. each and every bodies unique surrounding. It's a also a nature/nurture argument.
Yes, this is indeed true. Culture has a huge impact on the perception of evil. This is why I defined what I meant by it and why I said it is simple. I believe the simple definition I gave can transcend cultures. That's why it is simple.
what if there was an actual dimension of evil? Now that's more of a longer piece of discussion.
Could be, might not be. I certainly won't base my reality on what ifs. I can come up with what ifs and speculation almost non-stop. Yet I must base my reality on what I can observe and know. If I gain the ability to perceive this dimension then I'd need to plan how I live around that.
Never forget Pandora's box
I strongly believe that i have right to be held responsible for anything i do. ;)
Haha. Yes. Do you believe other people should be able to hold your responsible for a label they choose to place on you?
I agree with you. Yet the answer to my question when applied to myself is no.
only if i would be ok with that. somehow, its all about what you want, and what you dont want.
Sure that's the voluntary part. :) Thus why I said non-voluntary in my definition in the post.
I have been thinking evil is on the rise,but it's more out in the open now thanks to the internet.Good one!
Evil is usually perpetrated by those claiming to be doing good.
Yup like a person helping kids and then doing awful things to them.
Yep. Like I said evil is very simple to see, until we slap labels on it. Then people dodge and weave among the labels, and consider evil done outside of that box as acceptable.
Which in turn, (literally ha!) can loophole back into the box. This summed up your post to me. A lot of words like Evil and Love, that don't readily redefine themselves when they transfer from verb to noun to adjective, just confuse the heck out of me. I love them but I think they're evil. Just Kidding! Lol
you have a good habit of making your blogs hard to add value to ;>
I was going to say keep you hands off other people and their property...don't really need to...
Heh. That comes of being like minded in many ways. It is easiest to dialog with those you disagree with. Though that is also challenging, but if it remains civil it is well worth the effort.
it has become harder each year to be civil; the farther to the left one is, the more likely to see anything outside the Narrative as Evil, and the increasing general cultural move has been to the Left. There may have been a backlash in this new young generation, though
OTOH, I tend to have civil disagreements with those evil "Christian Conservatives"...even when I was a Satanist and a pornographer and they knew it.
Yeah I got written up in newspapers in my youth as being a satanist in the very rural area I lived. Funny thing was I was never interviewed or asked once if I was. I was VERY anti-religion at the time. I didn't speak about it, but I hated it and the harm I saw it doing to the world and the minds of people.
at another time' I think we can have a good debate over the value of religion to humanity.
we see and criticize the downside aspects, especially for those of us that aren't particularly religious, but I can replicate that downside in just about any other belief group.
faith in a "greater power" in one way or another can get people through some hard times
Yes, there can be upsides. Yet that also presumes they couldn't have gotten through the hard times without it. Perhaps it might not be as easy, but then easy does not always mean good.
but were humanity to learn this simple truth !
intolerance = EVIL
Well said @dwinblood
I believe in eternal life. Not because of magic, but technology. It's a long explanation, and for another post.
But, in eternity, we're all gonna end up getting along. Eventually. You and I. HRC and Trump.
Part of the reconciliation process the savage enemies of days will have to undertake (not because it's imposed on them, but because they won't be able to make peace without it) will be self reflection absent any blinders, or rationalizations, or excuses.
That will be a far more terrible judgement than any from another source.
That's what judge not, lest you be judged means to me. The judgements you make on others you will turn on yourself, and then, knowing full well who you are and what you did, you will have to seek peace from those you harmed.
This will not be easy, but will create true friendship in those that, in time, make peace.
Thanks for your personal investment in being a good person, and sharing part of that journey here. It is inspirational.
Thank you for your kind words. I try to be good. Yet according to some just by writing this very post I might be a Luciferian. :)
Which that type of labeling was why I actually wrote the post.
I don't have a specific belief on what will come in the future. I've played the game with friends when I was younger that we would make up a new religion and explanation for things like the after life once and hour.
We'd make some crazy stuff up. Most of the time it ended up being stuff similar to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster - R'Amen. Yet sometimes it seemed half way plausible.
If anything it showed me that I and my friends have vivid imaginations. So I can speculate on many different things that seem plausible about the afterlife and the future.
I stopped taking my speculations as facts or something I believe. Instead I simply view them as one among many possible possibilities.
The only thing I truly know is that each of us WILL get the chance to find out the answer to the after-life question. I'm hopeful there is something to it as then it'll simply be a new leg in the adventure.