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RE: My Ideology: I thought I was a liberal national socialist - turns out it is called libertarian socialism

in #politics7 years ago

a thing I should have touched on is that I want people to have some sort of stake in their community like investors.

I think it is much better if most visits to the doctor are not covered by insurance. If you would have to pay him 100$ you would not be pleased with a generic 5-minute check up.

If there is an emergency I think every doctor and human will helpif he gets the possibility to do so. They wont open their checkbooks and cross arms if a fellow human is bleeding to death. That is not what humans do.

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Now, that. Is exactly, what Smallism.org is all about :)

We're looking for people to help develop the system as the core people are very part time due to Ph.D research on decentralization but if you like the idea and can help have a look at the about us section

For the second part. You're expecting the doctor to do something for nothing, and I had this conversation with some one about education and teaching. Doctors and teachers have to eat. There are better ways of achieving these goals.

I think people should be rewarded for helping society/the people around them. But again I think we only need the possibility rather than a system. It is in human nature to show gratitude - nobody needs to be forced to do it, in my opinion.

Pay, is a reward for helping. How about I employ you on a 'possibility' of paying you?

How about I cook dinner for you without letting you pay for every bite you take?

How are you going to pay for the food? or will somebody just give it to you?

You're going down the road of denial of scarcity. Your ideas work wonderfully on the Enterprise, where the replicator can make anything you want without limits. But this is the real world, where there is only so much 'stuff'

How are you going to pay for the food?

Ideally I would go to one of my chickens, slit it's throat, clean it and cook it.

I am no farmer, but in the west we have a very strange realation/culture when it comes to our food and I would love to change that.

But this is the real world, where there is only so much 'stuff'

Capitalism as well does not change how much stuff there is on earth, does it?

And how much time have you spent raising that chicken, how much did you pay for food, for innoculations, vet's bills, licensing? are you organic?

I'm with you on the concept and the reasoning, but time has a cost too. While you were raising that one chicken, you could have worked for me and bought 40 chickens from the supermarket.

Actually, Capitalism does change how much stuff is 'produced' and more importantly it works out how much of stuff to produce. Unlike socialism, which is famous for producing products no one needed or wanted.

This guy summed it up a little better than me, I was legitimately pissed when I saw this video after writing the article. It is very much in line of what I wanted to express with this article in regards of the libertarianism vs socialism debate.

"We have our own terms for libertarianism and socialism that are different from the mainstream" - This tells you everything you need to know about socialism.

Borrowing from Orwell, doublethink - the ability to hold to conflicting views at the same time.

At 2:30 he wants worker controlled companies, but there is nothing stopping workers from starting or buying companies, this is a system called capitalism. It happens a lot. A couple of guys working at a firm say to themselves, "you know what, we could do this better", and they do. They leave the firm and start up in competition with their old firm. Often taking customers with them. That's called progress. The old firm adapts, improves it's offerings, or dies. Ce La Vie.

What he really wants, is workers to take for free, the rewards of the person who took the risks to start the business. That's the redistribution of intellectual property. That's socialsm of the mind. I'm trying to start a business. I've spent 5 years developing the idea, gaining the knowledge to make it feasiable. Talked to hundred of people to try and gain support and funding, and now he wants me to share any rewards (but not the risk) with the people I pay to do jobs for me. People who I can replace because they only do what I have told them to do at a certain quality (or I can sack them). What justification do you have for me to share my work with a shop girl?

Unfortunately, as the Spanish found out post 1936, the workers are generally not very good at running businesses because they want more pay and more perks. This means the company fails to put resources where quality and efficiency are improved and the firm gains market share, and because the firm fails, everyone loses (and it's never the workers fault).

This, in Spain, led to Fasicsm. You pays your money.

There are very few examples of worker run companies existing for very long. There was a coffee shop that tried this model that closed recently for exactly these reasons. Customers would wait hours for a sandwich, workers would have extremely long breaks or would choose their own hours meaning the customers wouldn't know when the shop was even open. You're welcome to run the business you want start, that way.

The one model that has had some success is of course the Coop model. Which in the UK was doing very well under the John Lewis brand. Then they put a meth headed baptist preacher socialist in charge, and prompty went bankrupt. Ce La Vie

"We have our own terms for libertarianism and socialism that are different from the mainstream" - This tells you everything you need to know about socialism.
Borrowing from Orwell, doublethink - the ability to hold to conflicting views at the same time.

How do you come to the conclusion that I hold mainstream socialism and libertarian socialism views? I dislike most of what the popular left is doing. Socialism is not an entity it is a term that has been stolen from us. We voluntaristic socialists are similar to the Libertarian movement - the press does not like to report on us.

I actually believe that there is no such thing as intellectual property. If someone can realize your idea better than you, he should be able to do it. I do not mean to offend you but If it comes to ideas. Isn't the freedom to copy any idea you see part of a truly free market as well?

I also don't believe that people need pressure to be productive just incentive and a good working climate. Ofc someone who is used to work in the west aka try to look busy when boss is around is not a healthy working climate.

The quote was from the video you linked.

You don't believe in intellectual property because you've never had an idea to be stolen off you. Just imagine you did do something creative, and then I took that idea and got rich.

You will never offend me.

yes it is, but there is protection of original ideas in copyright laws. Otherwise there would be no music or literary industry. I can't just put my name on harry potter books. If you don't believe in intellectual property you're by definition fine with me taking all the books in the world, putting my name on them and selling them. Is this not theft?

You've obviously never had a soul destroying job. Again, if you work in a creative industry you're correct. But if you're (as I've had to do before) unboxing something, peeling a label off, sticking a new label on and boxing it up (as new) again, stuck in a massive but freezing cold warehouse, trust me you need to be managed to be productive.

I read some and I agree with most stated, especially the notion of the "optimal size of a team". There are also a few points I disagree on like "Socialism creates slavery", but I think that depends on the definition of the word socialism.

I think one big thing you need is a symbol. I don't know nothing about arts, but maybe @kralizec or @oendertuerk can help you, for a small fee of course. They are capitalists as well ;P

You need to do more research into what socialism actually is, and more importantly where it leads. Check out Stefan Molyneux, Sargon of Akkad on Youtube for very detailed analyses. I've spent the last three years wondering around Asia which was blighted by socialism for many years, it is horrific. Long story short, the Economics doesn't work, people get unhappy, the government loses control, kills people who are unhappy because they critisize the government who will not relinquish the power they have because socialism.

Guys, if you like what I'm trying to start here, I need some help getting the method and message out. @kralizec @oendertuerk. Smallism.org

People can do it better for themselves.

I do not need to do more research and Sargon even describes himself a left winger btw. I can define socialism for myself, I dont need to justify the action of people who abused and mislead the movement ;)

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