You are viewing a single comment's thread from:
RE: The Voluntary Exchange Podcast: News In Traffic
Even if all the people living in Catalonia voted for secession (and it is not all of them) they will still be a small group of people compared to the total population of Spain who are the ones that have the democratic right to decide about their own country.
And yes, if California wants to leave the United States it would have to be a poll on the whole of the United States to decide if they allow california to secede. Otherwise there would be a Second American Civil War and the secessionist do always lose.
It only becomes a civil war when the rest of America decides to force one piece of America is stay. A war doesnt have to be fought about secession. Especially in the United States. United. States. Individual states voluntarily entered into a union and created the federal government. The federal government didn't create the states.
Spain is still a kingdom if I'm not mistaken. You're speaking of mob rule. That a group of people hundreds of miles away get to dicate to others who rules them. Just not a viewpoint I share.
Read the US citizen comment here that wrote about how the secession of California would trigger an American Civil War.
Spain is very similar in size to California and California has a single government and not 17 mini-states like there already are in Spain that makes the country very inefficient with thousands of politicians and public servants multiplying by 17 the administration because each region has its own parliament, government, sanitary system, etc, etc... craziness and completely inefficient and productive.
Madrid, which is almost in the geographical center of Spain is only 372 miles from Barcelona, so not thousands of miles away like you think, and it takes only 2h by fast train to go from one city to the other. Furthermore, with IT effective distances are shortened even more as the information can flow easily at any distance.
Madrid became the capital of Spain in 1562 (previously in other cities) precisely because it was in the geographical center of the country to make the government more efficient. If that was done in 1562 now in the XXI century with a central government in the center of the country is more than enough to efficiently manage the country and make it prosper.
I never said California leaves wouldn't create a civil war. I said anyone who starts one over it leaving, and anyone who thinks they have the right to dictate the lives of the people of California are no friends of freedom.
You just made the cause for secession in Spain. 17 different systems, trying to be run by one centralized federal government. This is about power. And the federal government, and the EU, don't want any independent states operating outside of their control.
Why is having one central body of corrupt politicians in control of large populations of people with different cultures a good idea to you? With a name like "freedomvigilante" I would think you'd understand the inherent lake of freedom that comes with a large centralized controller dictating the rules and operating out of the whims of the mob.
Freedom vigilante is because I believe in personal freedom, small government, small taxes (below 10%), self-responsibility, and gun ownership, etc.
Spain is a small country, about the size of California so a single government from Madrid which is only 327 miles from Barcelona is more than enough for the country. There is no need for 17 mini-states. It is crazy to have a mini-state for less than 7 million people when there are cities with more population than that.
The Spanish culture is very similar all around Spain, with some small differences, like the culture of all of the states in the United States are more or less the same with some small differences. It is obvious that the culture in Texas is different than in California, but in the end, it is all American culture. The same in Spain.
The police here is just acting on the democratic mandate that the rest of the Spaniards gave them, actually, the Spaniards wanted for a long time for the Police to take action against the secessionist but it was the government being too unresponsive. Now finally they have sent the whims of the mob to stop the fascist secessionist.
As "freedomvigilante" I believe and a small government whose only task is to protect us from the threats coming from within the country (police) and the threats coming from the exterior (army) and nothing more. A secession is a threat from within and so it is perfectly compatible with freedom to have the police or even the army to stop the threat.
Secession is people leaving. It doesn't physically harm anyone. It is a threat to the central government. The government and police in Spain are still filled with Franco fascists, no purge took place after 1980, and what we seen in Catalonia is fascism in the streets. When 90% of a region votes for independence, and they are violently assaulted for doing so, that is not freedom. That is not small government. That is a threat.
It is stealing my land, and we are ready to fight for it. On the 6th of October of 1934 Campanys declared the Catalonian State and we went to the first Civil War. Now 83 years later, on the 4th of October Puigndemont is going the declare again the Catalonian State, and we will win the war again!
So you live in Catalonia? You have personal ownership of plots of land there? Or the federal government holds power over that region and you benefit from it?
So you would have supported the Nationalists in 1936 -1939 when they captured the eastern part of the country from the "leftists"? Concluding with Franco in charge? A dictator?
I'm just trying to understand your politics.