Pizzagate - I finally took a deep look and I am disgusted! How can anyone not be outraged by this evidence?
A few days ago I saw the Alefantis interview on Fox News because I had stopped by my parents house and they have the TV blasting that propaganda most of the day. I had seen about PizzaGate mostly on Steemit and when I heard "Alefantis interview" I perked up. It became clear in Megan Kelly's interview that they weren't really investigating anything.
The interview was really just a propaganda piece to try to cool this hot topic down a bit. Well, it had the opposite effect on me. The fact that they were pushing the story to be fake was a big sign to me that it is true. Especially since there was not even an attempt to appear as investigative journalism.
Here is a youtube video of that interview if you want to watch it:
Down the Rabbit Hole
Today, I was watching a cliff high interview in which he mentioned pizza gate. The entire interview is really interesting and it prompted me to take a closer look at the current scandal. Clif's predictive linguistics approach is fascinating to me and in this video he talks about many things that I have been noticing for years, but I really enjoy his perspective of the data that he is mining from the internet.
Pizzagate, Bitcoin, and the Dollar Collapse
As I continued down the rabbit hole, I found piles of evidence that an investigative journalist would see as obvious clues to one of the darkest scandals of our day. The next video I found was a short one, but one that tied all my current favorite topics to investigate into one 10 minute video. Please watch this one!
If you think Pizzagate is "fake news", watch this 10 minute youtube video from David Seaman and honestly ask yourself the questions he asks:
The Evidence
The instagram photos alone should really make you think. Here is the most comprehensive collection of evidence for Pizzagate that I have found:
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1434956
If you look through that page, you will find a lot of freaky, disgusting evidence of the scandal, including the image at the top of this page and many that are much weirder.
One of the most damning pieces of evidence I found there was a link to this email from Wikileaks that is the least coded email that I have seen:
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/10052
What do you make of this? Please share your comments below!
Thanks for posting, that linked email was very clear! I was withholding judgment due to lack of time to investigate, now I lean toward believing there is something to it.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet. :)
Thanks for the powerful advice!
Lol!
Captain Obvious strikes again.
Thank you @dantheman! Yeah, when I saw that email, I was blown away! Also Clif and David's questions in their videos really got me thinking!
@dantheman Are you okay being downvoted for voicing a simple opinion that someone doesn't like? My Steem mood is sad today, and it has nothing to do with the price.
Bernie is as Bernie does. No point in getting upset over things I cannot change.
Yeah but someone like you has the power to win a flag war against him, which you could do to keep the platform open for free speech. Bernie is an enemy to freedom of speech and is actively hurting this platform.
Sadly, it impacts the platform, the experience of many. I understand not wasting energy on things you feel are out of your control. Thanks for the answer.
@dantheman You do realize that you are literally the only person who could change it?
Flagging, downvoting, stake based censorship and rep are actually your brain child. So yeah you could change it. Just sayin ;)
As for the email, those 3 kids are children of the campaign coordinators who had been on the road for awhile. They wanted their children at the party since it was close to home. Seriously use facebook, look it up. None of these people have private facebook profiles.
The ages are being called out so the recipient understands their baby sitting duties.
You're looking at parents making arrangements to ensure their kids are being watched and entertained while they work.
The email you guys are calling out as proof , is the most clear cut evidence against pizzagate's reality that I've seen so far.
Thanks for clearing that up. I'm back to neutral.
That could be true. I Just looked through all the facebook profiles but couldn't find anything about what you mentioned. Could you point me in the right direction?
also, what do you think about the stuff about Breitbart and Podesta and Hastert?
Here is a quick 2 minute mention about those subjects from Joe Rogan:
Hastert is being called a pedo but he's not. He's a gay man who hit on what 50 years ago would have been other adult gay men. He's 74 so you figure this is a sea change in his lifetime. But these are 16 to 18 year old young men. It's not even pederasty at that point since these guys have completed puberty. They were highschool wrestlers.
He did abuse his position to get them but it wasn't pedophilia and frankly you guys need to stop calling it that. It's a HUGE disservice to actual victims of real pedos.
The real problem here is that people are calling anyone attracted to a person younger than themselves "a pedo". I was at a bar the other day and a man in his 50s or 60s was hitting on a girl that was very clearly 25 or 26 and the guy I was with is "can you believe that dude, what a pedo!".
Pedo is exclusively being attracted to children who are prepubescent. This is abnormal because it confers no chance of procreative success. It damages the victim physically and mentally. This damage sets up a vicious cycle as victims grow up to become perpetrators themselves. In fact you'd be hard pressed to find a perp who wasn't a victim at one time. I think you'll also be hard pressed to find a victim who didn't become a perp later in life.
It is the damage, physical, mental and emotional that we abhor.
Being attracted to a post pubescent isn't any sort of "philia", it's how nature engineered us as a species and it's the secret to our success as a species. This is why we've survived everything nature has thrown at us since life began.
You best chances of reproductive success are going to be with a member of the opposite sex who has completed puberty. I hate to say it, but honestly age doesn't matter as much as maturity level. I've personally known married women that were 14 to 18 and it's not grooming, it's just cultural. They are wives and mothers. but you need to understand that this makes a lot of sense if the average life expectancy is 45 and huge numbers of women die in child birth.
So here is what I am getting at.
I don't know what Podesta did or did not do. We don't even know that what has leaked is legitimate.
We know what hastert did because he admitted it.
Breitbart died at the age of 43 of a heart attack from atherosclerosis. This means his arteries were hardened, this is a process that takes years to happen. Oddly enough Breitbart probably did die because he ate too much pizza.
Well guess what @DanTheMan, you don't have to speculate real or not. The smoking gun evidence was found and given to the Police on Day 1 of this scandal. There are four agencies investigating the connections, and once the New AG is in office, you will see arrests. I have personally seen the evidence and the emails to and from the Police on this. Soon anyone calling this "fake news" is going to be eating there own words.
I have been watching Pizzagate on and off over a little over a week. I figured if there was anything to it I could find something new within a few minutes. I decided to focus on Comet, which seemed an overlooked clue. Comets have heads and tails. So do sperm. Pretty tenuous. A comma even looks a little like a sperm. Still no big deal. However I discovered that the Comet Assay tests for DNA damage in {drumroll} .... SPERM! So clearly we have another little hint like these pervs can't stop themselves from dropping.
I just read the email too which is described as "one of the most damning pieces of evidence" and I must say that it is anything but "damning" or indeed is any "evidence" of anything.whatsoever. This could just as easily be read as a perfectly innocent email. I would suggest that any objective view of this email could not conclude it is "damning evidence" - you'd have to be operating some huge confirmation bias - where is there actually any evidence of a crime here - what evidence has actually been presented to you to lean one way or the other?
The only actual evidence I see here is of a sensationalist journalistic style, claiming falsely that an email constitutes "damning evidence" and such just sways me the other way......based on the actual evidence presented here.
They talk about kids in the pool as entertainment and mention their ages.
That and the fact the emails makes no sense as normal communication from my perspective.
I only said I went from neutral to leaning. I never drew a conclusion.
"They talk about kids and mention their ages" - Yes, they do. Can we agree that this is the only contentious/pertinent aspect of the email? If this is the case, then the only point I'm making is that in lack of any further supporting evidence, the email is inconclusive at best.
I mean any parent would describe watching their kids at play as quite entertaining in itself - it could be meant in all innocence. I'm not claiming everything is indeed all innocent, just that I have not been presented with anything convincing and certainly not anything that would constitute "evidence".
"That and the fact the emails makes no sense as normal communication from my perspective."
I think this particular one in isolation can do, though I've read a few other other things people have posted that seem to suggest there are code words being used between a group of people. The hypothesis has been that "pizza" related words are used to replace various paedophilia related preferences. If a number of these can be linked and the hypothesis presented clearly and convincingly, then maybe some actual progress can be made.
If it is then made clear to any reasonable person, that a code is indeed being used......then surely you would agree that sending end to end encrypted messages is no crime in itself.......lol
So, we would then have to show the coded messages were "pedo code" as opposed to say "drug code" or "weirdo code" ......in order to draw the actual ATTENTION of the wider populace.....the mainstream. This would then indicate reasonable grounds for a criminal investigation I think.
The larger point I would make here is that sensationalising things, claiming "damning evidence", claiming everything from Clinton to Obama to Jimmy Savile involvement and making claims of everything from pedo sign ping pong bats to ritualistic cannibalism, (all read about on Steemit) - does not serve the cause, nor do any potentially abused children any justice. This is my main issue with all this.
If anybody REALLY WAS trying to cover up any paedophile ring, the first thing they would do would start a media barrage of conspiracy theory linked articles to demean and diminish any legitimate inquiry, it would put off the mainstream wouldn't it? Now imagine mainstream media re-inforce the impression your hypothesis is associated with all kinds of crack pot conspiracy theorists......oh hang on they do.....lol
The fact that this could feasibly be a two pronged attack has now tweaked my interest.......be careful of the second prong.....
You cut my quote short there. You should add "that I have found" if you care at all about trying to be objective. My view, as is everyones, is subjective. By talking about our subjective view points, we can try to find objective truth. One of the most important aspects of communicating, in my opinion. Megan Kelly had the same effect on me that my post had on you. by not even asking any questions and assuming there is nothing to it and pushing it as fake news. That is what finally what made me take a deeper look.
There is no smoking gun yet, in my opinion.. These people are not completely brazen so they use codes. Why are all these powerful, busy people emailing each other about pizza? It is true that we don't know for sure yet what they are talking about. But to completely dismiss it, because we have not yet found the smoking gun, is dismissive and non productive.
It is also known that pedophiles use these terms. This makes these allegations worth looking into in my opinion. Also, it is much more interesting, if you actually look at all the stuff there is to look at. This stuff has been going on for a long time. To completely dismiss it because we don't have a smoking gun is exactly what someone that is doing that kind of stuff would want you to do. Thankfully that is not what everyone is doing. This is not going away. When I have more powerful evidence, I will share it, but by then you will be probably be aware of it , because we are not going to let this go until we get to the bottom of it. Everything will come to light eventually. I hope you share your opinion with me when that finally happens.
"You cut my quote short there. You should add "that I have found" if you care at all about trying to be objective."
Perhaps you could explain how this impacts objectivity, rather than just insinuate a lack of objectivity on my part. I would maintain that it makes absolutely no difference to what I said, nor twist what you said. It does not change the context nor impact objectivity whatsoever. I was quoting YOU, the author of the post I was commenting on, the opinion piece YOU wrote and just clarified again was merely subjective opinion - how does this impact objectivity?
"By talking about our subjective view points, we can try to find objective truth."
What?......maybe you could explain this reasoning a little clearer too, as it seems completely nonsensical to me. For example, what is the nicer colour - pink or blue?
You can talk about your subjective view points as long as you want, you will never find any objective truth this way. If something (anything) is subjective in nature, then you cannot make any objective conclusions about it.
"by not even asking any questions and assuming there is nothing to it and pushing it as fake news."
I haven't claimed you are reporting "fake news", you are not reporting any news at all - as you clarified yourself, you were writing an opinion piece on a subjective matter. I have also just asked you 2 questions, first to clarify where you see any lack of objectivity on my part and secondly, how you find objective truth from discussing matters of a subjective nature - let's see how you go on with those for starters.
"There is no smoking gun yet, in my opinion."
Nor mine, that is why I would not claim anything that can not be found to be objectively true as "damning evidence" as you did.
"But to completely dismiss it, because we have not yet found the smoking gun, is dismissive and non productive."
Yes, to dismiss it is dismissive.....lol. You also just (totally unfairly) dismissed my response to you as lacking objectivity - how productive is that?
I don't "completely dismiss " things because of the lack of a smoking gun, but because the so called subjective "evidence" presented so far is less than persuasive to me and presented (a lot of the time) with a lot of bells and whistles, false claims and sensationalist conspiracy theory type paranoid reasoning. This is what is off-putting to anybody such as myself. I'm not going to spend time watching bloody videos with pyramids, all seeing eyes and Masonic symbols plastered all over it, am I?
"Everything will come to light eventually. I hope you share your opinion with me when that finally happens."
This is when it will happen:
"When I have more powerful evidence".......
Hello @richardcrill,
Congratulations! Your post has been chosen by the communities of SteemTrail as one of our top picks today.
Also, as a selection for being a top pick today, you have been awarded a TRAIL token for your participation on our innovative platform...STEEM.
Please visit SteemTrail to get instructions on how to claim your TRAIL token today.
If you wish to learn more about receiving additional TRAIL tokens and SteemTrail, stop by and chat with us.
Happy TRAIL!
The issue now and why you do not hear as much about it anymore is Google (one example) changed the search algos to hide sites that keep us informed on it.
They ought to be hung (at the least).
I know right! Clif High was talking about that in a video of his that I posted the other day. He even specifically mentions Steemit as one of the sites affected by it!
If we keep going one person at a time spreading the information, they cannot stop it all. There will be a breaking point until the people stand up.
https://steemit.com/news/@richardcrill/half-past-human-clif-high-s-warning-to-woo-woo-alt-right-alt-media-and-steemit
You know I have been on to his webbot project for several years and lately his reports are getting not only more accurate, but happen quite quickly after exposure.
But not to kill the Pizzagate theme, they seem to be successfully muting the story. SO much so that if Wikileaks dumps more bombshells, one has to wonder if we will hear them.
Which are these sites you mention that keep you informed? Do you have any evidence of Google changing their algorithm in order to keep the general population less "informed". Thanks
A very good question EVERYONE should be asking.
Thanks for asking and I hope everyone takes this very seriously. Because unfortunately this is not anywhere close to all th dark nasty the global elites have been doing in "secret" for a long time.
Me too @Quinneaker! I am glad that many Steemit members have been on top of this from the beginning. I know I am a bit late but I had to share my findings and try to get more people to take a deeper look. And you are right about the global elites. The Clif High interview above goes into a lot of interesting details about that.
Why did @berniesanders flag this post?
Yeah, I would really like to know!
Why did @berniesanders flag @dantheman?
Yeah Media Matters is on steemit. I mean one person was saying there's nothing to this. It's just adults swimming with kids and eating actual pizza. Seriously dude.
I have had a look for you mate, suggest you let it go for the time being! There will be a redressing of the balance - just believe that I have done what I can. I hear you re the $10
Meantime have a laugh
Hahaha, thanks for that.
I've lived long enough on this host cell Earth to come to the conclusion that when all avenues of the Mass Media start screaming "Stop - Don't look at this - Its not REAL!".. well, in most cases, where there is smoke - there's fire. The sad thing to me is that this pedophilia scandal goes back decades, and is nothing new.
In my opinion there is enough questions raised in the wikileaks emails that are not being answered to indicate that something very nefarious is happening here. Mind you that this is just my opinion - which everyone is entitled to their own based on their chosen reality tunnels and belief systems.
This is the first time I've watched the "interview". I used to like Megan Kelly, but sad she sold out. Please not one email click or picture of the Podesta's and the Madeleine McCann wanted photo. So I see the D.C. Police say nothing there? Really when was an investigation done because I never heard there was one. I tried to post on FB and was warned not speak of it.
Now I'm coming up with an idea of how to post a few snippets. For example the wanted poster and Podesta's is the most damning so make a post on it.
Wow! This Fakenews stuff if getting out of hand! So glad we have Steemit to be able to post this stuff without censorship!
Anyway I am going to write a few blog posts and then may post on my FB page. Here is the first one. I still have to add some more references to other articles. http://wp.me/p8blNH-k I'm just thinking the most direct evidence to make people stop and think that there may be something to this.
OK, I just looked at the most "direct evidence".......seriously? The Podesta brothers look a bit like some of the photo- fits of Madeleine MCCann abductors.....that's it?
Thank you very much for this post! I am astonished by the amount of ignorance from people when it comes to that topic. Even though there have been several victims who told her story and have been speaking out, nothing changes! It is a fact that such clubs exist. Child trafficking, abuse and rape happens every single day. The elite's disgusting secrets are protected so well through the backing of media and the news. I truly hope that with the help of people like you, we can at least raise enough awareness that puts pressure on those secret keepers and cover ups. Thanks again for bringing awareness.
When looking at the Hampstead case, and looking at the three interviews of the children by the police it becomes clear that in the last one they were forced to lie and have now disappeared and are under "national security"
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TheHampsteadCoverUp/videos/
In this last video the "retraction" you can tell that they were forced to lie and say that they were making up the story, when any normal person can tell that the "police officer" who is part of of the cult is coaching the children and when Gabriel (the boy) first says what happened to him, looks at the officer then into the camera and then takes back what he said. Just take a look and see the difference between the tapes yourself. The evidence is clear
For anybody who is knew to the topic check out:
It is an absolutely disgusting reality! The cover up is flabbergasting. I am glad that Steemit exists so that we can expose this! Thank you for bringing awareness. I have just started looking into this Hempstead case.
The only thing you have exposed so far is the lack of anything to substantiate any of these claims being made. The empirical arguments have no clothes.....lol
OK, this is getting silly......everyone keeps claiming to have "evidence", yet also appears to have great difficulty presenting any of it. As I'm now feeling a bit "short-changed" I'm going to reply to everyone on this thread one by one until I get to the end. I am a reasonable person, so do your best to convince me of your claims - if you can do this, then you will be able to convince more of the mainstream population, so it's in your's and any potentially abused children's interest to do so. I maintain that I shall remain objective throughout and invite all to give me their best "evidence" or most convincing argument.
OK, firstly, I have dismissed the 1st video on the grounds that at nearly 3 hrs long, it is unreasonable to ask any person you are trying to convince of anything to spend that much of their ATTENTION to watch - things should be presented much more succinctly than that. Secondly, in my view, if you can't present your case/argument yourself in your own words and instead rely on other people's videos to make your case for you, then I'm not willing to engage - it would be a pointless exercise. Please present your case/argument/evidence clearly and concisely and stay on-topic without going down rabbit-holes or stealing ATTENTION. if anyone has any problem with my terms of engagement, then feel free to state your case. You are also of course free to just ignore me, however, I would caution that to continue in the same vein does neither your case nor any potentially abused children any favours in my view.
OK, I moved to 2nd video and do not see what you are seeing, nor is it directly related to "pizzagate"
3rd video - not watching another nearly 3 hour long video titled "Satanism, child sex and murder among the elites" because of reasons already outlined and lack of relevance to "pizzagate".
Sorry, not watching the rest on the grounds that you have already taken far too much of my ATTENTION on irrelevant nonsense and apparently need me to watch around 9 hrs of video to convince me.
i see that you are seeking to deny these things are happening. if your desire to see the evidence were genuine, you would read the posts, and there you would see the evidence. if you are waiting for the body of an actual dead child to come out of your computer screen into your lap, i am afraid you are going to be disappointed.
please, look at the facts, with an eye to the historical contextual pattern, and the people involved, there you will find your evidence. persisting in denial does not make the facts disappear.
Lol......I only asked you where you got the stats from because the "quick Google search" turned into a longish Google search and I couldn't find anything. Either you know where these stats are and from what reliable source you got them from or you don't.....in which case, yet again no actual evidence of anything is provided.
"i see that you are seeking to deny these things are happening."
Wrong - I am seeking any kind of substantiating evidence for the claims being made - this is something I'm definitely not seeing.
"persisting in denial does not make the facts disappear."
How about making some facts appear first?
Your argument that kids go missing and fall prey to paedophiles is common knowledge, is not any kind of news and in no way has anything pertinent to say about "pizzagate". It';s like you accuse someone of a horrendous crime, say murder, then the only "evidence" you can provide is to show that people get murdered all the time - how exactly does that provide any kind of evidence to point the finger at a particular person; it just doesn't does it?
i use "image search" to find charts and graphs. i find it work much better than pouring over the endless reams of data the web represents. once i find what i am looking for i can link from there to do more in depth research. care needs to be taken so it does not lead to bias created from the method of search, but i usually find it a useful place to start.
again i will direct you to look up Dennis Hastert, he is at the nexus of nearly all the scandals, in the USA that i have researched going back 25 years. he is the one that connects many. he is a serial child predator, at least that is what the judge said at his trial, when he was convicted. if you want to know, look into it. i cannot, in a comment on steemit, provide you with the evidence that you do seem to actually want. i have not seen any children actually being raped in front of me. i have, though, seen, too many times, the destroyed lives, of people i know, who have no reason to make such things up. there are also people like Ted Gunderson, former FBI. find anything you can, with him talking about this subject, and branch out investigating from there.
Dennis Hastert, Mark Foley, Jeffery Epstein, Jerry Sandusky, i'll start making a list. i never thought any of this would ever be taken seriously by the general population, because of the people involved being the "powers that be". look into any of these names yourself, and you will find your evidence. trying to get something that will stand up in court, in the comments section of a post on steemit, is not going to yield satisfactory results. do your own investigation.
i am not looking for a witch hunt. the guilty are the only ones i want stopped.
if you want, i can relay to you some of the horrifying stories i've heard over the years, but as i have indicated, this will only amount to hearsay coming from me. i was not victimized directly by this, i guess thanks to parents who seemed overly strict, at the time.
i apologize if i flew off the handle. this subject tends to get right up my nose. sometimes i forget to be kind.
I see, so the graph stats were just a random uploaded image to Google images? Well, I would have to disagree that this is a useful place to start any research. On the contrary, I'd say it's about the least useful way to find information - do you not check your sources, verify whatever the "image" is claiming etc? What if you can't substantiate your claims when asked......it could get sticky?
Anyway, I have no interest in researching your "list" of predatory paedophiles, nor hearing anymore anecdotal stories of how it "goes on" - as it is irrelevant to the "pizzagate" topic of conversation. I don't need to find evidence for any of the above, I'm asking for any actual evidence of the claims made against the particular individuals associated with "pizzagate."
No apologies necessary, I do tend to get up people's noses myself.......I see it as an Art form.....lol.
then good luck ever getting any research done on this enormous thing we call the web. i use any tool i can to narrow down the possibilities. i would recommend starting over. learn deductive reasoning and go from there.
of course, corroboration is necessary. the image search is just a start. trying to find a single fish in the ocean is nearly impossible. having a picture of the fish is not much more, but it is a start.
OK then, having done all this research and corroborated all the evidence and used all your powers of deductive reasoning........you still can't provide a link from anywhere on this enormous thing we call the web, nevermind a reliable source to substantiate your stats chart?
Lol......just unbelievable....
don't care anymore. i thought you were serious and not wasting my time. do your own learning or not. i have better, more productive conversations to have. there is enough information right here on steemit to start. go to the pizzagate tab and start reading. leave me be, or i will mute you. bye.
Lol, well looks like another one took their ball in when asked for anything to substantiate their claims. Well done guys, you're really doing a great job of convincing others that you have absolutely nothing of any substance to substantiate any of your claims. Mute away........lol
helping people learn is the point. not trying to spoon feed dumb asses who don't care or can't learn. if you feel some kind of success at making people think that you are a worthless idiot, then congratulations, i think you are a worthless idiot, and the world will be better off when you are gone. please, do hurry it along.
I think that last comment speaks volumes to others about yourself, rather than me. Well done.
court records and convictions don't impress professional doubters. he wants someone to dump a dead kid in his lap with james alefantis' fingerprints on the teeth, or he's not interested in actually learning or knowing anything. i think he's here to sow dissension. he flatly refuses to do any of the work himself and denies anything you say without looking.
So, just ad-hominem attacks left is it.......go back to your conspiracy theory videos then. It is clear you have nothing to say.
And this is why you can't see the truth. Work on your manipulated mind first! Good luck
Lol.....the hypocrisy is gob-smacking.......watch 9 hours of conspiracy theory videos in order to not have a manipulated mind, no evidence required........brilliant.
thank you for your efforts and article...It is US the people who need to be awakened and KNOW in our hearts that this world is full of love and goodwill, and that the darkness that we have been complacent with for soooooo long by buying into the programs of the corrupted leaders and elites who enjoy their lifestyles (depraved and disgusting as some are )while abusing those whom make that lifestyle possible, US. When we opt out of their systems.....they will collapse.....NON VIOLENT NON COMPLIANCE with their agenda....bringing awareness to the masses and WE WILL BE THE CHANGE WE WANT TO SEE! It is through us that this will be stopped.....we are the power that should be....take back our power and stop looking for someone to save us...that is how we got into this mess...FEAR that we are not enough....WE ARE ENOUGH....WE ARE NEO.....WE ARE BILL HICKS...WE ARE GOERGE CARLIN....WE ARE JOHN KENNEDY...WE ARE Exactly what we need to be, lets just remember that!
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
—
Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)
Thank you so much for this comment! I love Schopenhauer, Bill Hicks, George Carlin, and John Kennedy! Lots of wisdom coming from those folks!