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RE: Free Will and Conscious Freedom
I do not BELIEVE in ANYTHING. I CONSIDER the most probable POSSIBILITIES by trying to take into account all facts, I have been lucky to be aware of, that science has discovered so far. And so far, the most probable possibility seems to be that free will is an illusion. We are all products of mixtrure of random and deterministic events.
Nothing in universe works without influence of the environment. Concept of free will is an arrogance of human kind to think that humans are the only thing in the universe which can act without influence of the environment.
Glad to see someone quoting Jacque Fresco. Despite not agreeing with some of his incomplete (and stubborn) plans for TVP, I think he's one of the sanest person who understand this topic very well.
Yes, he is incredible. He is over 100 years old atm so he may be a bit stubborn but what do you mean by incomplete? RBE is never truly complete as it is emerging system, which never stops improving?
Ofcourse you are influenced by the situation and the deterministic component of the universe called natural law, but you have free will, that you're influenced by your situation doesn't change any of that.
If we didn't have free will none of this we're experiencing would be possible, you make choices every second, and if you made different choices in the past there would be a different outcome in the present.
The past and present are fixed, they are fact, you can't change that, but by learning of the past and getting a more accurate understanding of natural law, of cause and effect, you can create a better future, by making more qualitative decisions.
You have free will, but not without consequence.
If everything was determined why do anything? cause determinism is making you act, or you are?
You are the random component to the universe and the aggregate of that determines the outcome in the world around us in conjunction with the deterministic component which is natural law, cause and effect.
Acceptance of lack of free will does not have to make your life meaningless. It doesn't make mine. I just go with the flow of how my brain is working. For example, I have acquired certain knowledge and skills which I share with people as I learnt that it would positively to humanity. Lack of free will does not stop us from right to self defence and excluding people who are beyond ability to be psychologically reconditioned (sociopaths).
Neuroscience through experiment, proved that what you think is a free choice was already decided for you, in your brain, before you even thought about it.
Even my debating with you now is because my brain has been conditioned to work this way.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/free-will-could-all-be-an-illusion-scientists-suggest-after-study-that-shows-choice-could-just-be-a7008181.html
I wasn't saying accepting that free will doesn't exist makes your life meaningless, i meant that if in fact free will didn't exist nothing would be possible, consciousness would be impossible, you wouldn't be able to make any choice, you wouldn't be able to perceive anything, cause everything is determined, if you had any perception you would be like locked in syndrome with your body moving on it's own, cause you have no freaking choice, while the fact is you have and the choices that you and others make, in conjunction with natural law, determines the outcome that you will experience in the future.
I have watched neither of the video's you posted, nor did i click on the link, but there's no possible way to argue against the existence of free will (in conjunction with the deterministic component of the universe: natural law), at most i can think of that they are arguing is that you can't just want something and then you get it and that you can't just do something and expect no consequences and that the situation you are in can force you to make certain choices and that the culture you grow up in programmed you in a certain way by which you are more likely to make certain choices in line with that culture.
But cultures have evolved, many different cultures have been created, individuals have created themselves, you are not determined to remain ignorant and stick with the mind control of your culture.
consciousness is "the ability of a being to recognize patterns and meaning with respect to events taking place, both within oneself and in the realm in which the self exists and operates."
You have the ability to get to understand natural law, cause and effect, through past actions and results and make more qualitative decisions based on that understanding giving you the more qualitative results that you want in the future, you have a free choice in that, ignorance is a choice as well.
"If everything was determined why do anything? "
That suggesst the meaningless of action...
"perception you would be like locked in syndrome with your body moving on it's own, cause you have no freaking choice, while the fact is you have and the choices that you and others make, in conjunction with natural law, determines the outcome that you will experience in the future"
Perception has nothing to do with free will. You are life. An existence conditioned by mixture of deterministic AND RANDOM events, which flows through experience.
Natural Law is the only real totalitarian system. NOTHING in universe can act separate from natural laws. Like I mentioned, free will suggests that you can act freely of influence of natural law. It suggests that it is not natural law (your biology, neuro-chemistry, influence of environmental factors, random events etc) which directs your actions and conditions (the way you think) but that it is your own separate condition beyond those laws. Every single thought and actions is based upon your brains response to environment upon all experiences which you have acquired in he past.
The food you eat, ideas you get attracted to and expresses, people you are sexually attracted to, knowledge you have. EVERYTHING has been determined by your experiences. All the illusion of choices you make are rooted in what you brain learnt. It is impossible to make a "choice" in certain direction, without your brain learning first that you can go in that direction.
Please watch the above video by J. Fresco.
Action is meaningless if everything is determined, if you were meant to act determinism would make you act cause even thousands of years ago it was fixed that today you would perform the actions that you make, cause you have no choice in the matter you do what the universe determines you must do.
You read wrong, i said everything is impossible without free will, we wouldn't have this conversation without free will i said if you could still perceive the world through your eyes, it would be like locked in syndrome where you have your mind but can't use it to influence anything but itself, cause everything that's going to happen even a million years from now is already determined in detail, you have no choice.
But you have, it's not an illusion, choosing to think that choice is an illusion is deluding yourself.
The environment you grew up in might give you the tendency to make certain choices, because it programmed you with certain believe systems, but if it determined your choices, again nothing would be possible, the first culture would remain intact eternally, no genius individual that will crush any belief system. you're ability to recognize patterns and meaning, your consciousness will eventually realize that your belief systems are a load of bull and you will make different decisions based on your knowledge.
Free will doesn't suggest you can act independently of natural law, free will is the fact that you can choose how to act upon the knowledge you acquire about natural law, The Powers That Be have a great understanding of natural law, but they choose to use it to control the masses, by keeping them ignorant, rather then to enlighten them.
you can choose to be lazy, you can choose to be violent, you can choose whatever, but not without the effects that belong to those actions.