Transhumanism & The Torture of Immortality
The invention of religion primarily eased the inevitability of death. As our lives unfolded, experiencing our own demise was a rather scary realization. There was nothing we could do other than developing elaborate comforting narratives for the unknown. This is how religious stories came to be.
We like to entertain the thought that Renaissance liberated us from the shackles of Religion. Our torment though was never spiritual but biological. Our brain evolution enslaved us. Reproduction, the primary immortal mechanism that seems to satisfy all other organisms, became inadequate for homo-sapiens.
Religion and philosophy exist because humans die. Transhumanism came to the scene for much the same reason. The only difference with the previous two human enquiries is that it came to replace the abstract ideological narrative with a conceptual material application.
Up in close examination, transhumanism is almost identical to Religion. The flawed human body seeks liberation from its own prison. Our thirst for perfection is never quenched. The immutable belief that the human race can evolve beyond its current physical and mental limitations by the means of science and technology is no different than trying to transcend from the flawed physical material to the mechanical and eternal. In essence, Religion 2.0.
I consider myself a polyatheist — there are many Gods I don't believe. Nonetheless, I have noticed a strong trend from people in neoatheist circles towards this transhumanism trend that I often come to disagree. My argument is that they have substituted one belief with another without even realizing it. No matter how much we proud ourselves for being atheists, we all believers to at least something.
There is really no reason a human being would wish to live forever nor we have any evidence that it is attainable. All the research in the field is nothing more than overhyped claims — no different than the blind belief a religious person has towards the claims of a holy books. The atheist has substituted the blind belief towards the pastor towards that of a scientist. In both cases, there is little information known. All ideas are build upon anecdotal evidence.
Have you considered eating just pizza for a week? How about a month? A year? How about eating the same pizza for 50 years? How about playing the same video game until you die? Not many people are able to properly rationalize the implications of such an act. This is also the primary reason most people are naively wishing for immortality.
When it comes to perceiving time our brains give up. Time is not only extremely relative but also elusive to the human experience. Our quest toward immortality is nothing more than a naive self-misunderstanding. If we did realize what it means to live forever we would never wish or pursue it.
We seek change and variety. This is after all the only absolute truth of the universe. Everything changes, always. Nonetheless, we like to entertain the idea of the eternal without realizing the magnitude of the torture that is entailed. In eternity, a prison's size is irrelevant. It does not matter if it is 5x5 meters or 5x5 light years. Eventually, everything will feel like eating the same pizza, over and over again — forever. No need to worry though. Immortality is contra to existence.
"The immutable belief that the human race can evolve beyond its current physical and mental limitations by the means of science and technology is no different than trying to transcend from the flawed physical material to the mechanical and eternal."
No different? I'd say that one, religion, is just a wish, and the other 'transhumanism' is an endeavor.
They are both wishes. They are both endeavors.
Under Mao, the Chinese learned that a picture of a plum is not the same thing as an actual plum. Indefinite life-span (with good health) is the plum I seek.
I explain in the article how seeking material immortality is no different than seeking immaterial immortality.
Indefinite life-span is torture and definitely a not good measure of health.
I guess we are misunderstanding each other. When I say 'indefinite life-span' I mean that one will be in a youthful state. (that's the goal) And that one will be able to punch his ticket (die) at a time of his own choosing.
I've read somewhere that even when biological immortality is possible (10 to 20 years from now.) that one will statistically die in an accident within 800 years.
But when the technology does come, and I think it will, I earnestly hope that those who want it, will not be stopped from achieving a much longer and much healthier life-span.
Cheers.
Even if that happens then being "alive" really will have no point. If you could just switch off without pain (assuming the technology exists) then really all the experiences you could live as a human being with the appropriate receptors will be limited.
Remember. We already trippled our lifespan and most of us are miserable and depressed as fuck.
Technically, we can already just "switch off".
Euthanasia is becoming legal in more and more places, and improvised forms can also be done without pain (given basic knowledge of biology and access to the proper components).
Though our society is in no way close to accepting that some people might be allowed to kill themselves.
Mainly because, given we can't see the future, we can't evaluate if someone is in a temporary state of suicidal ideas or if they'll be miserable wrecks forever is they aren't allowed to end their life.
Why would the possible experiences we could live be limited if we could just switch off ?
We might just enter into "contracts" with significant others making it so they dedicate X or Y years with the other, and none of them are allowed to end their life during that time, or the decision must be mutual.
And keep the extreme prejudice against taking one's own life alive in said contractual life periods, where a person has pretty much sworn they'll stay alive for said period.
I personally think I'd have a blast as an immortal. I'd have time to learn all the skills, be they artistic or scientific.
Explore the world (and possibly the universe).
Write/read a ton of books...
There's LOTS to do.
Of course, it depends on if we're still under the same "work to live, and don't you dare stray or we ostracize you" society we have today, or more of a "machines that synthesize food or build basic shelter/amenities are a dime a dozen and the universe is open to us" society.
We've got to work on a lot of stuff before being immortal is something that'll actually be worth it, once the hype has gone down (say, after the first 30 years).
I'm sorry but this is pure nonsense. Of course there's a difference between transhumanism and religion. Transhumanism is based on science and facts whereas religion is based on bullshit.
There's nothing "religious" about getting chips implanted, having prosthetic limbs, controlling machines with our thoughts and synthetic neurons communicating with biological neurons. These are all factual things that currently exist. Now, given that these things currently exist, it's also completely factual that these technologies will continue to improve, just like every other technology.
Everything about transhumanism is based on scientific fact - from living in Matrix like virtual realities using brain computer interfaces (BCIs) to becoming immortal synthetic minds living in orbit around stars - they're all progressions of current technologies with no laws of physics preventing their creation.
Ignoring synthetic immortality for a moment, we do in fact have biological evidence that immortality is biologically possible - the immortal jellyfish. Also, to claim that people have no reason to want to live forever is every bit as stupid as claiming that people have no reason to want to live at all. Do you see everyone lining up to kill themselves because I don't. I most certainly want to live forever and my reasons are many, I just don't want to live forever as a decrepit senile pensioner.
This is complete and utter bullshit and makes it obvious you haven't even bothered to look into these claims. Are synthetic neurons bullshit? Are brain computer interfaces bullshit? Are age reversal experiments that have rejuvenated mice bullshit? Are prosthetic limbs bullshit?
No it isn't, don't be so ridiculous. Why would anyone want to play the same video game until they die when they can play every an new game whenever they want. On the Internet, is there just one site that people can visit. Of course not, people make new sites every day. As a synthetic immortal, you wont just have access to to 1 virtual reality, you will have access to an infinitude of virtual realities where absolutely anything is possible because they will all have their own laws of physics which could be vastly different from our own. You wont be limited to virtual reality either. What's to stop a synthetic mind from building themselves a spaceship body to travel around the galaxy in? Distance between stars and the time it would take to travel between them? Why would those things matter to an immortal with access to an infinitude of virtual realities ?
Posts like this annoy the crap out of me because you've given no actual thought to the subject as evidenced by your pizza paragraph.
Death denial sets you off to the dark side! And makes you ugly to boot.
:)
I think you are asserting a connection between enhancing human bodies with technology and seeking and more importantly expecting immortality without demonstrating or at least explaining why that is the case. In a way you are substituting the variety of reasons people might be fascinated by the idea with an unreasonable conviction that immortality is inevitable. You are basically debating a belief or an attitude that is marginal at best.
On the other hand, I kind of agree with your second idea, that given enough time, existence itself will become a boring chore. If I had the option for avoiding death for as long as I wanted, I wouldn't mind giving it shot. You always have suicide as a way out, right?
Just as a curious but not really relevant counter-example, I have a friend that has already survived decades on Pizza Margarita almost exclusively and a baked potato or two from time to time. I'm not talking about just the same pizza every day, but the exact same pizza from the exact same place every meal. He is forced to eat other stuff from time to time for health or practical reasons, but if it was up to his preferences alone, it would be pizza every single time. A few decades later (which is of course nothing compared to eternity) he doesn't seem to be slowing down or getting bored or tired of eating the exact same food. He thinks he's found the perfect thing to eat and has already enjoyed it thousands of times.
I agree with your criticism. But oh boy, I can't picture a human being eating the same thing for years.
Right! I really have no clue how he keeps it up without getting absolutely fed up with it and I actually have no clue how he stays healthy either. I guess a pizza Margarita actually has pretty much everything you need for a balanced diet... who knew :P
until it doesn't. I don't think so. he is eating other things as well
I wasn't serious about that, I was trying to make a joke, obviously unsuccessfully. I already mentioned that he eats other stuff sometimes because he too realizes that this type of diet has zero chance of being healthy and even sustainable on its own. The fascinating thing is that if it was up to him and there were no health implications , he would really stick to this food item exclusively.
answering too many comments. Got me caught up I guess.
It happens, not a big deal at all. Also the quality of my "joke" surely helped the confusion :P
After watching that episode of black mirror, im super ready to be uploaded into a computer walking on a beach for the rest of eternity
at this point ill even take having my conciousness being uploaded into R2D2 and rolling around earth for the next thousand years if i could
What makes you think is any different than walking inside a prison room for 1000 years?
Very Interesting
God is anything that you accept as the ultimate truth, how you connect to that is your religion. Or not!
Seems like some of you here made logic and reasoning your religion, same bull shit a mortal or inmortality discussion through logical thinking, (marcusorlyius and kyriacos).
Not because you are well documented and have good semantics and charm my subjectiveness is out of existence; or immortality or mortality themselves; or whatever some humans want or some others don´t.
So, whatever! Its a nice interesting disrupting article.
Good for discussions but no conclusions.
We are Pure Consciousness we live forever through a process of reincarnation. Our body's are just vehicle's that break down like all matter which obeys the second law of thermal dynamics, trans humanism will trap souls, consciousness In the physical world which Is a zero sum game. Wake Up everybody before Its to late.
Facebook & Google Is 666 Evil. This new technology Is not what you think It Is.
religion is just controlling people...
I get your opinion but you're missing the bigger picture...
I don't think it was intended to be about controlling people but as a whole, religion has definitely served many purposes and not all of them have been righteous.
Religion is very multifaceted; belief itself isn't inherently controlling, but states - especially imperialist ones - will always take advantage of religious (and whatever else they can) to control people. Religion is seldom the true evil, whatever or whoever is exploiting it for their own gain is.
I agree. Many people like to say that money is inherently evil as well but it falls into the same boat. Originally it was just an abstraction layer for trading.
Money I'm less certain on. I don't find it inherent either I suppose, but it has functionally led to a lot of bad events and situations that likely could never happen otherwise. I think most of the bad from religion, on the other hand, could have come from other places.