RE: Are there 3 worlds that are fundamentally different ?
In my opinion there is no such thing as consciousness. Our bodies develop random electrical signals that deal with our environment. The universe is constantly expanding and thus becoming more and more entropic.
It has been postulated that in order to predict how many billiard balls will end up in specific holes at the first brake you will need some pretty accurate mathematics. It could be probably be done. By the time though you start predicting the 5th hit on the game one would need to take into account the gravitational pull of the sun. For the 7th hit you would need to take into account the placement of every single atom in the known universe.
That's how entropy rules everything. I will try and search for the math (had them somewhere and post it here)
" no such thing as consciousness" Why do you think that?
Because I have no evidence for such a concept and everyone defines it differently. Same thing as "love" or "god". What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Does "pain" exist? Or can it be "dismissed without evidence"?
I guess there will be a point in your life when the concept of defining pain as "random electrical signals" will collapse.
You are much more than your brain, though your brain prefers to position itself as the ultimate king. Especially the case when the brain is very effective, like yours.
Depends how you define pain. If for example you define pain as the defense mechanism upon which all forms of life have in order to preserve their physiology then it can be demonstrated that it exists even in plants.
In humans pain appears as something unpleasant and we back off from what is causing it. In plants we preserve similar effects.
Yes, we have pain in plants. Which only proves my point: these things are very very old thus very real. Actually they are more real than anything you can imagine. They are meta-real.
oh. now you went full namaste
I don't think so. You question the realness of anything that cannot be scientifically proved. I find it quite limiting and actually useless. Useless in that sense that in order to live we need to know how to live and science does not deal with that.
My approach is different. I treat evolution seriously: as the mechanism which reveals the ultimate truth. Thus anything that survived the process of evolution is real, and very old concepts like "time", "god", "sacrifice", "consciousness", "pain", "suffering", "chaos/order", "good/evil" are very old thus very real.
Applying to those concepts the requirement of scientific evidence is similar to requiring that I prove to you that e.g. numbers exist. Are numbers real? They are meta-real, they exist as an abstraction so they are more real than their actual implementation. The concept of numbers survived the human evolution so it's real.
Weird, I didn't get notified for any of these comments, had to manually come here after you told me!
We don't know. We just can't know.
That's the whole point of this, that the subjective world is inherently "hidden" to us for analysis , all we can do is monitor the brain (or the equivalent of a central nervous system for any organism) , analyse electro chemical signalling patterns and compare them to ourselves, or other beings ( for ex : rats) that we have studied closely.. that's the closest we can get to learning what the organism is "feeling"
Since plants lack a CNS, I seriously doubt their degree of consciousness would be anywhere close to ours, or other animals, which is is required to feel complicated sensations such as 'pain'..
However, if you adopt a panpsychist view, they are also conscious, and also capable of pain and pleasure, but it is very minimal, almost insignificant
You could be a philosophical zombie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie , that can perform all the functions of a real organism, but doesn't require consciousness. The "random electrical signals" that deal with our environment can function perfectly well without needing someone to experience them .
But we are philosophical zombies copying things that others have left before us. We don't do anything different other what our DNA does throughout its replication and consequent variations. All life follows the same path.
Where does the "subjective" world fit in if you're a zombie?
"A philosophical zombie or p-zombie in the philosophy of mind and perception is a hypothetical being that is indistinguishable from a normal human being except that it lacks conscious experience, qualia, or sentience.[1] For example, if a philosophical zombie was poked with a sharp object it would not feel any pain sensation, yet could behave exactly as if it does feel pain (it may say "ouch", recoil from the stimulus, and say that it is feeling pain)."
Lol