On Property: Response to a recent claim made on my Steemit post on free speech.
In response to someone on Steemit who said the difference between public and private property is only in the mind:
I have to disagree with you, respectfully. My body is my private property, and this is a nature-conferred reality: I am the highest executive agent in regard to my body (and mind) according to biological design. Nature.
Unowned property that I create, homestead, or acquire as a gift or through voluntary exchange, through the labor/actions of this body is thus mine by extension. Any other system not based on this natural reality (independent self-ownership) always is violent, and always falls apart. Indeed, it objectively cannot work if peace is held as a value due to the economic reality of scarcity.
To put it simply: everybody understands this natural law reality. Some may deny it in word, but never in deed (unless they are physically neurologically damaged).
If I walk into a restaurant and take your food from your hand, that you have just paid for, you either consent or do not consent. There is no in between. Most likely you will react in shock and yell: "What are you doing!?" You may even get physical and attempt to stop the theft.
Even if you said, "Well, that is not my property, because property is only in the mind," then you have proven my point again. You had to choose to allow me to take it. This is because you own yourself, and you recognize the food as yours, properly (property). You recognize what is ap-prop-riate, i.e. what is proper.
With public and private the issue is the same. Two or more people can voluntarily agree to share property, and it can be jointly owned, but to say "everyone owns it" without getting the express consent of each individual party to the "contract" requires that some of the individuals accept others using their "property" without their consent.
i.e.
This is public property so I can call you racial slurs all I want!
I want to use the tax money you paid to build a park here! To hell with what you want to do!
You see, you don't have to have folks vote on whether or not someone can use racial slurs in your own house, or use your money to do renovations. You decide, because you own it.
If you cannot even use the public "property" you pay for--even in part, oftentimes--how can you be said to "own" it? It is a preposterous proposition (not that you are making said proposition).
~KafkA
Graham Smith is a Voluntaryist activist, creator, and peaceful parent residing in Niigata City, Japan. Graham runs the "Voluntary Japan" online initiative with a presence here on Steem, as well as Facebook and Twitter. (Hit me up so I can stop talking about myself in the third person!)
Within the framing of the concept of property, I think you sum it up nicely.
I tend to take things a bit further than the statement you are replying to though. This statement only goes halfway, creating a paradox. From my point of view the entire concept of property is in the mind, regardless of whether it's public or private. But you could really say that about anything so I won't say that the concept of property is moot and not worth discussing.
I know we probably don't see entirely eye to eye on some things but I really respect your opinions and enjoy learning more about your line of thinking in posts like these.
Yeah, haha. Actually a friend pointed this out as well after I posted on Facebook. Everything is in the mind. Yes, and then, like you say, the discussion itself becomes an entirely moot point. Thanks for the comment. Glad to be connected on here, whether agreeing or disagreeing in the spirit of progress.
I kind of agree with that persons statement and I will tell you why. If a person takes your food in restaurant from your hand, Sure in society today you might get up and yell or call the cops but let tell you a little secret. Humans are animals. If we were in the jungle there would be no difference in smashing a table and somebodys skull for taking your food or life force. There are no rules in a savage environment. Everything is earths it does what it pleases. your body turns to dust fertalizes the land and is ate from. ownership is an illusion inside of the human intellect.
By that token, isn't the world simply an illusion of your perception? How do you know that anything is real? Are humans real? Animals? Are you?
Nihilism of this variety is exceedingly unproductive.
This is not a nihilist statement. I didn't say nothing is real. Everything is real except for irrelevant rules that dont apply to every situation at all times. Fight or flight are the only true rules. In nature if you want something you have to fight for it. Don't want to fight or think you dont have to? Then your species get's wiped out. Ask the dodo bird.
This assumes that people are functionally no different than animals. Given we're sitting here having a discussion about just that, I think it's pretty clear this isn't the case. So yeah, it is nihilism. It's moral nihilism; nothing matters because in the end its eat or be eaten. This is demonstrably false when it comes to human beings, especially today.
I'm not arguing that one shouldn't defend oneself or one's property. However, I think it's pretty obvious that human beings generally don't abide the kill or be killed mentality, instead favoring peaceful resolution.
That is literally a false reality. You obviously have never lived around starving people away from technology and civilization.
Have you? If you have I'd love to hear your experience.
Well I kind of just tried to describe it to you. lol not trying to argue but my experiences around desperate people are the only way i felt qualified making those statements. When people get hungry or walked on things seem to turn pretty animalistic its a bit unnerving. not sure if you believe in ptsd but I do and I believe it happens when people see the nature of human beings it tends to be hard to forget. After all we are told to live around humans every day and not become hermits.
Which would be an example of violence in response to violence. As for your previous assertion that hungry people are prone to violence, would it be more difficult to try and overpower someone with more than you have if you're on the brink of starvation than to try to persuade them to part with some measure of what they have? Which entails more risk?
Incentives matter. Even when things are desperate, people seek the easiest, least risky way to assuage their unease. Violence and conflict are always the most expensive means.
Well you have a point. Your body is definitely not private property :D Just by saying that, we can clearly identify that the distinct difference is not just in your head :D
Talk soon!
Wait, if you own your body, it is private property, right?
Human bodies aren't scarce? Others don't want to use you to perform functions other than those you'd rather perform? You don't have exclusive control of your body?
I agree with you @kafkanarchy84
While we are in a public space, that does not mean we can rob someone else's privacy. Because everyone has a privacy space with different rules.
I've also been arguing with friends about it. At that time, my friend often updated something on her social media homepage. He does not care who he writes or posts, annoys others or not. "This social media account, what does it matter to others?"
My friend forgot, if he was in the public sphere. Something he considers privacy can damage relationships with others.
Thank you for sharing with us! I hope you enjoy the upvote!
No more words....
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My dear friend @kafkanarchy84
I really like your written style...I respect it...
Upvoted and resteemed...
Cheers!...
yeah sure there will be a reaction to from us if anyone take some thing without our permission and i think myself is myself my thought my body and everything mine not public and if anything i buy and pay for that after then not that public property but i dont understand what public property defination and why people say to politicions and president that they are public property they dont make any step without from everyone permissions in their private life or every goverment... whats ur idea and thought on it?@kafkanarchy
if u own ur body then u should not die
but ur birth and death is not in ur control
ur most likely renting this body...
foolish are those who believe that they own anything
yes i own things in lieu with laws of man but these r impermanent laws..
I completely agree with your point of view and also well written.