Truth vs Fact and Dynamic vs Static within Belief Systems

in #philosophy7 years ago (edited)

steemit.jpg
I was reading a post by @troglodactyl which I resteemed and I started to reply to him at length. I realized the likely response was better as an actual post. That is how I came to be here today.

The other day I was debating with my boss about Truth and Fact. Up until that point I considered them the same thing. Yet, in discussing with him it turns out they actually are two different things. The Truth is always based around to the perceptions of the observer, and their current knowledge. They will describe and perceive this truth through a very personal and limited perception based upon what they themselves know. There may also be some assumptions based upon what they know. Yet to them it is still the Truth. They are not lying.

Then there are facts. Facts are indisputable pieces of information. "It is a fact that this man was hit by something that put a hole in his body". The Truth would be someone saying "He was shot by a gun, we heard a pop, and then he fell." That is the truth to the best of their knowledge. The fact is that the guy is lying on the ground with a hole in his body. If he survives and during surgery they may remove a slug that corroborates the truth the person who stated the story made. They could also find a sliver of wood propelled by a transformer that happened to explode near them. They could find nothing at all, as the pop and the wound may be unrelated and coincidental.

This is the difference between Truth and Fact. Ideally we want our Truths to line up with the facts we have, but fact and truth are actually two very different things.

It can be distilled down to Facts being Static (it is the unchanging information) and Truth as being Dynamic (changeable).

The truth can and should change with the learning of new information. Exposure of new facts should always alter some Truth in some way.

I only recently realized the difference between these things myself. Prior to that I was treating Truth and Facts as the same thing. They are not.

It could be as simple as asking someone to "Tell the truth" and they tell you a story. That story is what they "believe" happened based upon their knowledge and what their own senses witnessed. This is different than "Tell me the facts". The facts would be the details about what events, people, colors, etc that were actually seen. It would not be assumptions of the interactions with those things and the motives.

Discussing motives is an example of someone telling you the TRUTH as far as they know it. "He did it because he was angry with his neighbor's dog". This may not be a fact. It is an assumption.

He's a master Liar

A lot of people today are getting sucked into propaganda narrative from any side of the divides about "LYING" and who is lying. Lying requires the person know they are not telling the truth. There is a big difference between LYING and BEING WRONG.

I'm not a fan of Donald Trump though the media attack and constant hypocritical bashing makes me like him more than I did. He has been called a pathological liar by many prominent people.

I actually haven't seen him lie. I've seen him be wrong a lot of times, but there was every indication he believed what he said was the truth. This is not lying. This is being wrong.

Lying is something far worse. It is knowingly stating something that even you yourself do not believe in.

So LYING like so many words is being hijacked for propaganda purposes.

Suddenly depending upon who you are being wrong, is now the same as lying. I believe everyone should be concerned about this trend, and they should challenge it whenever they encounter it. This is something that should be challenged whether it is being used against someone you like or don't like. You liking them or not does not make this suddenly into an OKAY thing.

It is perverting the truth for propaganda and political reasons. It is a stain, and a corruption. It is the black tar slime monster that we seem to be allowing to coat our minds and in some cases are encouraging it to do so.

Belief Systems


Belief systems are normal. I don't really like the idea of SYSTEMS. I don't really have much of a system anymore. I process what information I have at the time to shape my view of "The truth" and I welcome and seek out opportunities for that information to change and steer "The Truth" towards something more accurate. I do not set my belief or "truth" in stone.

It helps that I now know the difference between FACTS and TRUTH, for until I learned that distinction I viewed the ultimate truth as immutable. There is some ultimate truth out there. In reality, there are ultimate FACTS out there. The truth will forever change within our minds.

Being Wrong


It is okay to be wrong. It is normal. All of us are wrong. In reality, we are likely wrong far more often than we like to admit. We have this stigma that being wrong is to be avoided at all cost. Being wrong is valuable. We hopefully learn a lot from being wrong. In fact, I'd argue that it is being wrong that motivates us to question. If we are RIGHT and already know the answer then there is not doubt or reason to question. A person who believes they are never or rarely wrong is likely a fool. They do not realize that they have boxed their mind in. They believe themselves to be either omnipotent or flawless. This is mostly about denial and fear of being wrong due to the stigma. There should not be a stigma with being wrong. There should be one with lying, but as I stated being wrong and lying are two very different things.

So next time you think "you are lying", consider this. Does the person believe what they are saying? If the answer is yes, they they are not lying. They may be wrong though. It is also possible that you are wrong. Accept being wrong as a gift. It is an opportunity.

Don't be afraid to challenge people talking about the TRUTH as though it is FACT. Help more people see the distinction. Don't be afraid to challenge people who call someone a liar, when in that case they may simply be wrong but believe what they are saying.

Steem On!




Sort:  

Glad to see some analytical philosophy and discussion of belief systems! Cheers @dwinblood

It is nice to see a reply pop up on a 10 month old post. It let's me know people still see them. Steemit moves so fast it is often like a conveyor belt. One is left wondering if people will ever see that article again.... it isn't deleted, censored, or lost, but it is traveling off on the conveyor belt of time.

A fact is a truth. A possible truth can lack the support of facts. The opposite of a truth is not a lie, but falsity. Lies are intentional falsehoods, untruths. A person can honestly spread falsity without lying.

Truth: That which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.

An opinionated truth is an empirical understanding of ones own perception or a rational understanding of ones knowledge not a fact. A truth-fact is the evidence with multiple empirical test that brings up a fact of agreeing belief to then becoming a public rational thought. Can we agree on this? For example

  1. Truth is personal as facts are empirical agreements.

  2. Faith is not a fact but a belief.

  3. Personal truth can have lack of information as in facts are researched and studied.

I BELIEVE it is a FACT that taxes in The U.S. ARE VOLUNTARY for the VAST majority. If not please take 30 minutes to ENLIGHTEN yourself to the TRUTH. PEACE!

Loading...

If you think so you clearly don't know what the word voluntary means. If by choosing NOT to pay them you will be fined, imprisoned, have liens on property, etc then if one chooses to do it ONLY due to that then that is considered duress and is NOT voluntary.

Also "vast majority" is irrelevant. Truth is not dictated by quantity of people. That is an appeal to popularity fallacy. So look in the mirror and speak your last two sentences to yourself. Peace.

I said the vast majority because if you reside in certain locations OR work FOR the federal government then YES YOU ARE REQUIRED TO FILE a return, everyone else it IS VOLUNTARY.

When are born our parents get us a "birth certificate", think of getting your "birth certificate" in the same terms as signing a contract because that is essentially what it is. You should read the links, you will see you are WRONG on ALL counts. Sorry but TRUE. This dioes NOT mean the illegal police and court system will not try and stop you from exercising God givin rights but more and mnore people are doing it every day, I will document my experience here. I plan on NEVER paying extortion "taxes" again. PEACE and please give the infor a good read, I KNOW it sounds unbelieveable.

Loading...

Nice post, thanks for referring me to it. The distinction between truth and facts is clear and one of the first things taught in epistemology, it is good to see that discussion has taken place here. It seems like it should be an ongoing discussion in the media, more relevant than ever these days.

The trouble we have today is that people's subjective truths leads them to declare facts as fallacious, even when the are objectively true. This results in the strange scenario where even when people know something is a fact, they claim it is not true because it doesn't align with their belief system, which should qualify their statement as a lie. But then, perversely, their belief is given preference over fact as truth-constructing. I suppose that would be Doublethink?

The ability to draw the distinction you have here seems sadly beyond the grasp of far too many. I enjoyed the read, thanks for directing me to it!

My pleasure. It was relevant to your own post so I thought you might like it.

There are truths in fiction though no facts. The stories we tell can convey truths but many people confuse them as facts. If one reads the works of Shakespeare, there are many truths but no facts. Fact is, truth describes. And any description can only represent the fact, not be the fact.

Good post again mate.
Upped and resteemed.

Fact is, truth describe.

That's why I say when we report (describe) facts, we are not giving out facts, but our truth.

I could nitpick semantics on my personal opinions of truth, but honestly this is a provocative thought. I agree there are shades of difference in personal beliefs and perception as opposed to undeniable, objective "facts" (what I personally know as "truths")

Upvoted and resteemed!!

You have a boss? How has a smart man like you deserve such misfortune to have a boss?

Yeah I am a Senior Network Engineer and I live in the Denver, Colorado area. My boss is the Chief Technical Officer of our company and he lives in Columbus, Ohio. We physically meet in person about once a year at an annual company meeting, but all of us work remotely from our homes. I talk with my boss frequently, I game with my boss, and I debate with my boss. So it is not the typical scenario. In fact, I had Discord installed for gaming with my boss and two other coworkers before I ever used it for steemspeak, VOTU, and things like that.

Technically I have a second job, but it is SLOW going as I treat it more as a hobby. I am the CEO of my game development company. :)

Oh and I was my own boss for 9+ years at one point. I don't mind having a boss as long as they are a good one. Then they have to deal with aspects of the business that I'd rather not have anything to do with. :)

Interesting read. It may just boil down to semantics. I think of "truth" as universal. Truth is intrinsic and does not require knowledge of it to be so. Facts can be used to argue for or against what is accepted as truth, but do not define what is true. Therefore, when someone speaks an untruth without knowingly using deception, it is still not truth. On the other hand, facts may be truthful in and of themselves, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will shed light on the larger truth. One example would be if a man is falsely accused of robbery. The facts may show that this man was in the visinity, fits the description of the culprit, fled from police when confronted, etc. All these facts lead to a false conclusion.
A lie is deception with the intent to deceive. So I totally agree that not all false statements are lies.

Loading...

I think TRUTH = FACT. Now BELIEF is some else.......

Coin Marketplace

STEEM 0.19
TRX 0.14
JST 0.029
BTC 64689.27
ETH 3135.60
USDT 1.00
SBD 2.56