History repeats itself?
Something that I think is interesting in a sort of morbid crazy way, and.. I'm going to try to make this a shorter post even though it's difficult sometimes to say what you wanna say with less words..
Is that.. We're basically seeing the same kind of mentality playing out in the Middle East today as played out in the colonization of the United States itself.
Let me try to explain.
According to the words of the founding fathers themselves.. They wanted this land because of their beliefs in Providence.
This is a bit occult so bear with me. It seems as if they believed that this land was special for some reason.
Perhaps ley lines, or how it lines up with certain other aspects of the planet. I'm not sure.
Some researchers believe that they believed this area was the "New Atlantis".
So.. What they did, and whether they held these beliefs PERSONALLY or not I can't say I wasn't in their brains, but..
It appears that way based on their quotes if we are to take them at their words.
That they were using the excuse that these people were "savages" and "primitive" as a reason to wipe as many of them out as they could and enslave the rest.
The founding fathers wrote things about how they were too primitive to live or coexist with.
That we couldn't build this big huge modern civilized cities for Providence(God's plan) if the natives were living off the land in the open way they did.
We gotta pack everything into big tight cities don't cha know! No living naturally in nature! If so, you're a beast and an animal.(sarcasm but sorta what they believed)
And now, in this day and age at present.. I've debated SO many people in regards to the illegal wars going on especially in the middle east..
And.. The more "super patriot" types will say we need to be over there bringing Democracy and "civilization" to these people who are stoning their people to death and basically living like savages.
Same fucking thing. Same exact arguments. It's not even really a racist thing like some think, for some it is perhaps.. But.. It's more about power over less advanced peoples and power in general.
It's more about, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and unable to sufficiently defend themselves when these predatory groups of people wanted their land or resources.
Racism was more of an excuse for the lower level thinkers and "order followers" to dehumanize other humans and enable/allow just about everything awful you can imagine to them including mass murder.
(Though who knows, maybe there was a real element there of our founders thinking they were racially more superior and valuable, similar to that of the Nazi's in relation to Jews and other "undesirables". I can't say for sure.)
I've had quite a few people, an alarming amount actually.. In debate basically just tell me they think we should nuke the Middle East and turn the whole place to glass.
That's how dehumanized an entire group of people have become.. To these "super patriot" types, they are less than animals.. They are "savages".. Their lives have virtually zero meaning.
SO in a sense.. We have history repeating itself. We came over from Europe supposedly fleeing from tyranny, and then we become tyrants to the native people here, and then became tyrants to others using similar methods all around the world.
I would say.. Most people look back at genocides like what we did to the natives as horrible and primitive, and what the Nazi's did to the Jews.. We also generally see that as horrible and primitive.
BUT.. When it's us in the United States.. Killing 4-8 million or more in the Middle East in the last couple decades, which is potentially more than the 5-6 million Jews that the Nazi's reportedly killed.. How can anyone still think we are like the super hero of the world Captain America shit?
You gotta have a super level of contradictory beliefs to think we are the heroes, when we have potentially just killed more innocent Middle Easterners than Hitler killed of Jews.
And when our history is also stained with the blood of perhaps up to something like 100 million or more native Americans as well?
Not to mention all the other illegal wars secret or not around the globe..
How can you truly build something beautiful and in the name of "Providence" or "God's guidance" on the burial ground of countless millions of innocents?
Can you? WWJD? I'm not a Christian.. I don't believe in God, but it seems rather strange that they often invoke "his" name both in ancient genocides and modern ones.
Bush himself referred to the Iraq war as a crusade.. We are living in the modern day crusades to an extent, yet strangely enough..
The ones claiming they believe in Jesus and forgiveness and love are the ones actively going to other lands and mass murdering other humans by the millions ruthlessly like they are less than animals.
Weird.. So weird.. Life is fucking crazy sometimes.
I think we should try to be wary to let those in power dehumanize others.
It's not okay to turn the whole middle east to glass just cause they are not like us.
It's not even okay to kill one person for such reasons. It's really only okay in my mind to kill in self defense or self preservation and for probably like 99% of the conflicts in US history.. I don't think they were either of those things.
If we don't chill with the mass murdering of innocent people.. It could come back to really haunt us in a lot of ways.
Weapons of mass destruction are getting smaller and easier to obtain, if you keep going around the world murdering innocent people.. How long till you piss someone off enough that they come here and do much worse than what they did on 9/11?
Which let me remind you were the reasons given by the terrorists for attacking, basically because we were over there on their land.
So I mean.. How is any of this mass murder making us safer? It's not. It's making us less safe. You keep doing this shit, one day will wake up to the news that like a suitcase nuke went off in a major city or something like that.
Well. Some of us will wake up to see it. Hopefully. If it doesn't somehow trigger mutually assured destruction. -.-
sigh Rant over. Sorry it ended up being so long like usual.
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History is taught by the victors and most people lack the awareness to see themselves as the "bad guy." Great post though!
Indeed. I agree, and it's unfortunate things are as bad as they are, hopefully it's better in the future. Well said though and thanks for appreciating!
Great post sir,
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@apolymask,
You got it well! Everything is a drama! They make, they feed, they fight, they celebrate! They need news to get attention of people and consume funds for something shit!
Cheers~
As a German I view America very similar. Most of the white American population were thiefes that fled or were brought to America as Prisoners/slaves. So America is in a sense all the scum of Europe :). It is always funny how many of the right wing Americans talk about their European culture, while to most of us Americans are crazy Barbarians.
I actually don't think the cultural (supremacy) argument is completely unbased, if I am in favor of foreign cultures being not being dismantled - something america does on a regular basis and not only through wars - then I should be also OK with Westerners who want to preserve their culture.
As soon as this argument is used to start a war, it becomes ridiculous though.
Also some people use productivity and average intelligence as an indicator for a "good" civilization which I think is quite dumb :).
I agree and disagree. Ethnic cleansing is more specific targeting than "war". For instance North Korea has little in common to Iran or Syria other than the true (or false) propaganda we hear about those regimes). To be honest I don't think any of those countries are "good" in terms of whatever freedoms we have left here. But not living there it could be more free than here.. I just don't know because I never lived there. From what I heard, it's not.
Nature is nature, and people take control to keep dominance. Just like "God" has been used as an excuse for terrible crimes (much coming out of the middle east lately), so have atheists done the same (Stalin, Mao, Hitler). So I understand the hypocritical nature of what you speak of, but it really has nothing to do with religion. Pick your propaganda if you will; but it's all the same.
Why would you say it has nothing to do with religion? Clearly the founders spoke of their belief in Providence in regards to wanting this land. I can share the quotes with you if you'd like.
They believed apparently that this was their land, chosen for them by GOD.. Or.. It was God's land in one way or another and they believed they had the "religious" right to it. Or the "belief" (which means basically the same thing as religion) they believed they had the right to it an that it was god's will and direction for them to do so.
We have more illusion of freedom and by extent of that illusion to some degree actual real tangible freedom, but in the end the government has put to paper the claim that it can assassinate anyone or indefinitely detain them without any warrant or due process and it has plans where it claims the authority to take as many people as they want and put them all in slave labor camps and take all their property and gold and money and food and everything they want.. So in the end.. Are we really free if the government has put to paper the ability to take everything from us at a whim?
I can't prove the motivations for the founders cause I wasn't in their brain, but based on their own quotes.. it does appear religion was a significant factor.
I do agree an disagree as I said before. For instance freedom of speech. I have less of a chance of incarceration or even death if I speak out against North America. My freedom of speech might be illusionary, but it’s one level above other regimes. That’s all I’m saying, and I don’t think it can be contravened. Freedom is an illusion, but some places give more wiggle room than others. I think that is my point.
People who kill more people are not always the baddest. What can the United States do in the Middle East? I would say that it should not interfere, but that is not always possible, let us take the example of the Nazis.
If the United States were to apply the same policy of non-intervention, many people were killed by the Nazis, and if it was intervened, as it did, many people would die because of their intervention.
Sometimes you should do things that do not look good, to ensure the safety of the majority. I do not justify what is happening in the Middle East, it is terrible, and in this particular case, like other interventions previously made by the United States, I do not think it is correct. But from there to compare the founding fathers and the liberators with tyrants there is a huge deadline.
Have you ever seen the movie.. The greatest story never told? It's about how the US wanted to get into the war an how they raped and slaughtered German innocents in mass, they specially targeted civilians to bomb. They were even mowing down cows and pet animals with their planes.. I mean.. You think that was a good thing? To massively slaughter innocent people because other people are slaughtering innocent people?
To me, it seems like the US was not in that war because of moral or honorable reasons, but because they wanted more power. Same story as virtually always. So I'd suggest you did into that war a bit deeper before you use it as your example.
Here's a 6 hour documentary on the subject.
And why would you say theres a problem comparing the founding fathers to Hitler when it's possible the founding fathers killed way more natives than Hitler did of Jews?
Possibly over 100 million natives versus.. 5-6million Jews.. Do the math!
We've possibly killed more than that in the middle east in recent times!
What happens when you combine both those conflicts together, PLUS the hundreds and hundreds of other ones all around the world both secret and public?
We are probably the biggest terrorist in the history of the world by a sheer numbers game.
Maybe not.. China might come close, as well as Russia or a few others.. But I mean.. We might entirely be the king terrorist in the world, why can't we be compared to others like Hitler?
Actually I have seen the documentary, like others like Zeitgeist, and many others with revisionist theses. I also consider myself sufficiently skilled in many matters of history, and especially the Second World War, which I have studied over and over.
Comparing the founding fathers with Hitler or saying that they are genocidal is simply false. The Europeans came and killed many natives, but should not they? Or is it that the Europeans are superior to the Americans and should treat them like animals? it was like a war, Europeans had wars with Arabs and Asians too, what sets Americans apart?
Wars in all places and countries at that time left many slaves to the losing side, if it was not their extinction. Nothing differentiates the Americans. I do not say that it is good, nor fair, I say it was necessary.
We can not come now and make decontextualized suppositions of the time, if they were never done these acts, we would never be learned that they were a mistake, and we would never have solved them.
The ancient world was nothing like the present. The information was not so abundant, what was thousands of miles away was unknown, and violence was a natural instinct with which we could survive hundreds of thousands of years, you can not blame people for acting the only way they know.
As for the Middle East, I said earlier that I did not support these actions, neither in Iraq nor when the Arab Spring, nor any other. But that does not make the United States a terrorist country, do you know what's going on in the minds of these Islamic fundamentalists? these people do not mind dying if they take a few Western civilians with them. They see the world in a medieval way and do not accept mediation, they want to revive a caliphate that existed in the times of the Roman empire.
Those children that you can cry here in the West, they do not care at all, and many times they put them together and send them to the front in a war they know they're going to lose.
I repeat again, I do not support these interventions, and I think they should stop, but I do not agree to politicize them simply to support progressive policies in which the villain is the West. Maybe you have not said that, but they always go with an objective those arguments .
That is awesome!!