If everything except the directly observable is a lie, then all the science and engineering knowledge that enabled the building of the computer are false and thus the computer is an impossibility. Yet, the computer exists. Hence, the idea that everything but the personal and directly observable is false has to be false.
Complete distrust in existing institutions is not warranted and is too cynical an attitude.
Dear Game00, why are you asking me this question? Have I said anything about computers? It was @markkujantunen all conversation along who was talking about the PC for some reason. He did not get my point at all and was acting like a kid.
My point was not about the computer, engineers or that our world is fake as such. it was base on your article that truth outlives lie.
My point was that we live in the world, where media creates fake news, where each government is interested in politicians interests and not citizens. Where history is getting rewritten by countries for their own interest. That is a lie I was talking about. I have no idea what it has to do with a computer. Ok, someone invented computer, ok they had some knowledge, so what? In the internet you get so much fake information, that you can't see the difference and believe what is closer to you. And thatš why I was talking about relative, friends etc, they are the people that are closest to you and in most cases you have a better chance to get truth from them than from some strangers.
To expand on what I said in the previous comment: yes, there's a lot of bullshit in the world but @gamer00's point, to my understanding, was that the truth is independent of anybody's opinions. My point was that while there is bullshit everywhere, humanity has developed and employed pretty effective methods to cut through bullshit. The scientific community is the most important of such institutions. There used to be vastly more harmful superstition floating around and believed by all walks of life in the past. While lies, propaganda, and deceit have always been and will always remain integral parts of politics, the degree of crap politicians can get away with in our era is much less than it used to be. This is a direct result of people having higher levels of education and general knowledge. I countered your argument using high tech as a counterexample and explained its importance because its very existence relies on vast numbers of individuals co-operating and having co-operated to weed out entire false belief systems in the past.
Well yes, that's essentially what propaganda is. Lies. But hey, I will most likely continue with being philosophic for a while, so I guess my post will eventually get some continuation.
Anyway, the gist of this post was that truth itself is not in any way dependent on what people think or believe, whether what they think they believe is a lie or not.
why ironic , where is the irony?
If everything except the directly observable is a lie, then all the science and engineering knowledge that enabled the building of the computer are false and thus the computer is an impossibility. Yet, the computer exists. Hence, the idea that everything but the personal and directly observable is false has to be false.
Complete distrust in existing institutions is not warranted and is too cynical an attitude.
No point to argue with the smartest person on the Earth, who knows everything through his computer and Internet :D
Just asking, would your computer even work, if its design was based on lies?
Dear Game00, why are you asking me this question? Have I said anything about computers? It was @markkujantunen all conversation along who was talking about the PC for some reason. He did not get my point at all and was acting like a kid.
My point was not about the computer, engineers or that our world is fake as such. it was base on your article that truth outlives lie.
My point was that we live in the world, where media creates fake news, where each government is interested in politicians interests and not citizens. Where history is getting rewritten by countries for their own interest. That is a lie I was talking about. I have no idea what it has to do with a computer. Ok, someone invented computer, ok they had some knowledge, so what? In the internet you get so much fake information, that you can't see the difference and believe what is closer to you. And thatš why I was talking about relative, friends etc, they are the people that are closest to you and in most cases you have a better chance to get truth from them than from some strangers.
@flowily, do not get personal. It is your duty to clarify your position if you are not getting your message across.
To expand on what I said in the previous comment: yes, there's a lot of bullshit in the world but @gamer00's point, to my understanding, was that the truth is independent of anybody's opinions. My point was that while there is bullshit everywhere, humanity has developed and employed pretty effective methods to cut through bullshit. The scientific community is the most important of such institutions. There used to be vastly more harmful superstition floating around and believed by all walks of life in the past. While lies, propaganda, and deceit have always been and will always remain integral parts of politics, the degree of crap politicians can get away with in our era is much less than it used to be. This is a direct result of people having higher levels of education and general knowledge. I countered your argument using high tech as a counterexample and explained its importance because its very existence relies on vast numbers of individuals co-operating and having co-operated to weed out entire false belief systems in the past.
Well yes, that's essentially what propaganda is. Lies. But hey, I will most likely continue with being philosophic for a while, so I guess my post will eventually get some continuation.
Anyway, the gist of this post was that truth itself is not in any way dependent on what people think or believe, whether what they think they believe is a lie or not.