A brief look at @ocdb for users and delegators

in #ocdb6 years ago (edited)

I was having a look at some of the numbers from the @ocdb bot to see how it was performing out of curiosity and it is pretty interesting. Firstly, the bot was never meant to be a boosting bot but as it has got sizable delegations that has made it quite a large distributor. Delegators have the added benefit of it being a non-profit bidbot meaning the bot itself makes no return itself, only the users and the delegators. It also offers a flat rate return and works on a queue standard with a limit on the send amount. This limit will be adjusted depending on popularity.

The initial plan of the bot was to support whitelisted users (users who had been supported through the manual curation efforts of @ocd) during the down times and for the delegators, be able to support users who had shown they can create decent content and hopefully, those who will look long-term (I will get to that later).

When it comes to the delegators to @ocdb, here are the major ones. While the largest delegator is Freedom, you will recognise a lot of the names on that list as people who have supported Steem for a very long time and continue to actively do so. These aren't (including myself) people who generally sit back and take passive income.

Now, Freedom is an interesting case here as the account is the major delegator to all of the major bidbots with nice round numbers which means it is a decent account to use to compare the returns. Here is how much it delegates to each of the four:

And the daily returns for Freedom from the last 24 hours:

I will use the Steem number and add some extra for the SBD that was sent.

@ocdb has 2000MV delegated to it and returned: ~501 Steem.

@therising has 3000MV delegated to it and returned: ~615 Steem.

@appreciator has 3000MV delegated to it and returned: ~620 Steem.

@rocky1 has 3000MV delegated to it and returned: ~667 Steem.

@upme has 3000MV delegated to it and returned: ~600 Steem.

As you can see from these numbers, with the flat rate bids and returns @ocdb offers, if Freedom had the same 3000MV delegated to @ocdb (currently 50% less) it would have returned ~750 Steem. Not only that, the users are earning around about 10% more with almost zero risk (unless large swings in the market) due to the flat rate and no competition on bids.

Obviously this depends on the orders but if hypothetically the four bidbots returned the same as @ocdb, Freedom would have made ~470 more Steem than it did.

A look at the users of @ocdb

Obviously, the bot isn't there to make any income itself but it does have a purpose of increasing the size of the accounts that use it so we have to take a look at some of those numbers. I don't have the earnings amounts but we can have a look at how many accounts have used it.

There are 365 individual accounts that have used it and I estimate that about 70-100 of them have sent to it but had their request rejected because they weren't on the whitelist. 225 accounts have sent twice or more. The bot has only had large delegations the last 2 months or so but has been in operation for 9 now. Initially it was returning a few dollars on a vote and was 50% or less utilized.

But, this is not the interesting part in my opinion as its idea was to grow accounts and other than a couple of days where the prices were a mess before @yabapmatt updated the code, @ocdb has always returned positive numbers that could be used to power up or not.

Out of all 365 senders to @ocdb, only 25 are currently powering down. Not only that, only 7 of those who are powering down are actually whitelisted users, the other 18 are people who tried to send but got rejected. This means that if there are 280 whitelisted users who have sent to the bot, only 7 of them ~2% are currently powering down. As a bot that was aiming to steadily increase the stake of users, that is a very decent result.

Not the future

While @ocdb is doing a pretty good job of distribution to content producers in its community and giving decent returns to delegators as a whole, it is not an ideal solution for the future by any means. The initial premise of blockchain was to cut out the middlemen though and as a non-profit bot that doesn't take a fee, that is partially done as it connects the user directly to the stake seller without fee-leakage in between to middlemen.

We all know however that the incentives encouraged by the code on the platform are misaligned and that in time, there has to be better solutions found that can support consumers, contributors, developers and investors adequately. One of the things that delegating to @ocdb has allowed me to do is grow at a slightly faster rate and still return to real contributors. I am lucky that I am able to still have significant active voting stake too and I don't recommend small accounts to delegate to any of the bots as they can be more influential staying active. Freedom of choice though right. I do use the bot myself but hope that as more of the whitelist start growing through it, the maximum send can be reduced significantly and it can support more and more users. At that point, I will stop using it as it will have enough users to keep the queue full.

In the future though, I am hoping that there will be changes to the platform that will offer all stakeholders on the platform incentives that satisfy them without having bidbots at all. In the end, the bidbots could be used for true promotion only and offer no return direct return. I am hoping that the users of @ocdb keep powering up their stake and when prices increase, take the opportunity to become a collective distributing force themselves.

There is a long way to go in the Steem game and the view today is far from complete.

Taraz
[ a Steem original ]

A link to the @ocdb whitelist

As you know, I can't get these numbers myself mostly so asked @abh12345 to help me out. Thank you.

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Love OCDB and use it on my personal account (@thedarkhorse) for every post. But for some reason even after it's been confirmed a couple times over @pifc just isn't showing as whitelisted when I try to buy a vote. Will have to reach out to someone later as it would help the account power up faster if all Steem that was planned to be powered up was used to buy votes instead earning a slight profit.

It's really impressive that only 2% of the whitelisted people are powering down. That shows the whitelist has a very committed group of people to the long term success of Steem. We need to keep helping people like this!

But for some reason even after it's been confirmed a couple times over @pifc just isn't showing as whitelisted when I try to buy a vote.

Perhaps @m31 can check this?

It's really impressive that only 2% of the whitelisted people are powering down. That shows the whitelist has a very committed group of people to the long term success of Steem. We need to keep helping people like this!

I agree. Some of them are also buying in at the same time so I hope that in the future this will help them be more a part of the community.

I personally have been using steem that I got from selling a car for steem and planned to power up. This way is taking longer then just straight powering up, but is allowing me to power up more. It all adds up when you are trying to reach a goal and I want to hit Dolphin before the price jumps drastically.

And thanks for tagging in someone that might be able to help!

Hey! Could you try buying a vote with @pifc again? We believe we figured out what caused the issue and it should be fixed now. :)

credit for the fix to @jznsamuel

Thanks @jznsamuel for figuring this out and @acidyo for helping get this resolved. Sorry to have been the cause of adding work for you.

I just checked, for some reason there was a double of it:

not sure how that happened but i removed one so let me know next time you try if it works. We do try to not let any alt accounts in but we've left some leeway for the "early adopters" of the alpha and beta :). We figure with the growth we will start seeing soon it will be impossible to have enough SP to give everyone a vote as big as they are now so once that is reduced some accounts will have an advantage over others because they can bid twice per day.

We will get back to that rule later as most who have an alt there right now have asked and we've been aware it is theirs so changes can be made later on if needed.

The pifc account is truly a community account, but I would understand if changes are needed. Also understand that at the end of the day technically I could cash that account out so it's an "alt account", but don't see that happening. Heck I pay to lease that account SP, buy it SBI shares, and more to trying and build it up as much as possible for others to get bigger votes.

It doesn't have the funds to do large votes so don't think it's going to change much in terms of the VP of the account either. Think the 5 steem that was just sent will be a pretty normal size as much of the liquid funds earned are used for prizes.

If needed I'd also be willing to lower my personal vote by the amount pifc buys to keep things "fair" if changes are needed. Just let me know if that topic ever comes up. Pretty easy to reach on discord (same name #6765).

Waited 6 minutes to hit send and the money didn't bounce back! Seems to be fixed.

Thanks for this post! Was really well written and the feedback from reading the comments was great too. It seems to be a bit of a "steemit is not steem" thing here too where people think ocdb is ocd or that the activity of ocd is gone. I have to keep reminding many that ocdb is just a side project and as you pointed out to give future rewards to users we have curated.

It seems to be a bit of a "steemit is not steem" thing here too where people think ocdb is ocd or that the activity of ocd is gone.

I think you are right about this but I also think that while people like getting ocd support, they don't necessarily follow the project itself.

The coming 6 months is going to tell a lot about where the platform is headed and I think that for those who have taken advantage of ocdb, they will be in a bit of a better position when the time comes.

OCDB is amazing. the post clearly compares the return for delegators. users might be happy for not gambling with their hard earned steem by using bidbot.

Some whitelisted people who use the bot power down only because they did not have any liquid STEEM.

Hi markku. What do you mean by this. The users power down to create liquid Steem so they can then use it on the bot to power up again?

That is a good point too, thanks.

Is playing with bot is profitable ..considering the downtime?? Not only ocdb but with others as well. The data analysis shows a good return for the delegators but not so profitable for small users. Why community like @ocd is encouraging people to go for bot when many other community is against using bot services....these question keeps haunting me. Though i am in whitelist i never bid for ocdb bot ....i wish they could return to manual curation to show some love to real contributors who regularly post on dzily basis....
Thanks for the summary ...and yes...@abh12345 is alwsys good with these numbers and charts...😉

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@ocd is still manually curating as far as I know with its main account. @ocdb is a support system created to keep earnings ticking over. @ocd itself can't possibly reach everyone and if it is aiming to support many accounts, it can't continually keep supporting the same accounts consistently so the bot can add some consistency and reliability rather than having those same accounts turn to other bots that may or may not lose them Steem.

i wish they could return to manual curation to show some love to real contributors who regularly post on dzily basis....

They do, they can't spread very far at the moment with the current prices though.

Does that mean...bidding on ocdb bot is only way to get yourself self curated...being the whitelist privilage ....but i noticed many big users do not like bot used on posts.

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as far as i know @ocd votes as it always has around the place on whoever it finds, whitelisted or not. you can ask in their discord though.

powering down isnt really the greatest aspect to look at...i for instance am powering down 100% of the time yet i havent sold any steem for a whole year or so:P most of the time i just power it up again...sometimes i use the liquid funds for steem oriented stuff...

simply measuring anything by powering down attribute sucks:P

Yes I know. I used to do the same as it meant that I was always closer than 7 days away from getting some liquids as I went 100% power up. I just added it in there as it is a metric many use.

Then we should prehaps try to educate people about power down use cases instead of having it as this "bad" attribute to measure statistics by?:P

Then we should prehaps try to educate people about power down use cases instead of having it as this "bad" attribute to measure statistics by?:P

Yep, I agree and this is a utility coin. The reason I think people should think aobut it though i that the system is also stake based and SP is a future position too.

Thanks for the great analysis @tarazkp. I am one of those who are on the whitelist but have yet to use OCDB yet. I can see what @acidyo is trying to do, to support quality content creators which is a great thing particularly given the current environment.

So far I've resisted as I really want to 'make it' myself, and it's becoming a real struggle for me in the past months. I honestly don't know how much longer I can hold out, as the fallback temptation is become stronger and stronger every day ...

So far I've resisted as I really want to 'make it' myself, and it's becoming a real struggle for me in the past months.

I know this feeling well.

I honestly don't know how much longer I can hold out, as the fallback temptation is become stronger and stronger every day ...

It is very difficult at the moment which is the point of the bot. those who are using it are generally still here, growing and hopefully building for their future. eventually, the bots will disappear but unfortunately, not yet.

Out of all 365 senders to @ocdb, only 25 are currently powering down. Not only that, only 7 of those who are powering down are actually whitelisted users

And one of those seven is me, who isn't powering down to sell, just to move it into cold wallet. (With some buying cheap SBD and converting on the way.)

yep, I didn't name them at all as I know there are various reasons for those 7, like Markku said also that it is to get more liquids to send.

why into a cold wallet btw?

The more I play around with auths, the less comfortable I am with having assets in the same account I'm using for apps. It may be a little paranoid, but there's not really any reason not to move as many assets as I can into an account that doesn't use its keys or give away its auths, and it's convenient now because liquidity is so valuable in the conversion cycle.

It's mostly Monsters that motivated me; this last price drop led me to holding more USD value in Monsters than I have in SP, and keeping all of that asset value locked into the same posting access that I hand out fairly freely in order to use front ends started to bother me. Then once I had a cold wallet anyway I figured I might as well make as much use of it as I can.

good to know thanks for explaining :)

Hi Taraz. It has helped me no end as I have grown over the last few months. I think it helps users get into a stronger position so they can be more supportive to the community in the future. I personally don't like bid bots but this one makes sense.

Though it is a non profit bot I still cant bring myself to pay for votes. If people like what I do, then they give me a vote.

@bozz only pointed this out to me yesterday, and though it's got good support from well regarded people you still need to send it STEEM to get a vote, or delegate to receive a return. I am on the white list though how I got there, I don't know.

Am I missing something or is there more to it that what I see?

The sad thing is unless you have whales or dolphins in your pocket already the people aren't out there right now to "like what they see". New followers in the past three months have been pretty much non existent no matter how much many of us try to promote our material. Results from authentic interaction is even pretty non existent right now.

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I just realized I used non existent too many times. Sorry 😋

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I do get new followers, but less than I used to. Being late to the party didn't help with mine. You joined 2 months before me and have several hundred more. You could say it's a number that can be ignored but when it comes to the @busy incentive, it's very relevant.

Yeah, they are mostly bots or spam accounts. I think I have gotten maybe three new followers in the past three months. I made my first post using busy the other day and my upvote from them was only .07, so really only .01 more than you said you had gotten from them.

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If any time in the last 1.5 years ocd voted on your content you would be on the list. They are still manually curating users with their main account.

It is up to you to use or not. The ones that are using it though are some of the most active on the platform and will hopefully stay that way in the future. They aren't only active because of the bot though.

I made a vow to never use bots again, at least not in this form.. ie.. send STEEM, get a vote. We are all using them in other ways of course, such as @steem-ua, and @steem-plus.

It just doesn't seem right to me but I will continue to observe it.

yep, they are all different forms of the same thing really.

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