• Could an entirely new formula be implemented by the witnesses/Devs without an Fork?
• How Heavy Would the Network-Performance-Impact be when switching from simple functions (like linear/^2) to more Advanced stuff? Does this load applies to the witness-Servers and how much (more) Could they handle?
• Do you think an more complex Formula could solve the current Problem with the Crab, while still Match the concerns of the „but the whales..“ People?
Maybe there is an „Eierlegende-Woll-Milch-Sau“-Function out there.
Could an entirely new formula be implemented by the witnesses/Devs without an Fork?
No. That is the very definition of a hardfork.
It would require a change to the protocol and the majority of witness would have to run the new version of software.
How Heavy Would the Network-Performance-Impact be when switching from simple functions (like linear/^2) to more Advanced stuff? Does this load applies to the witness-Servers and how much (more) Could they handle?
Depends on the formula I suppose, but shouldn't create a performance issue.
Do you think an more complex Formula could solve the current Problem with the Crab, while still Match the concerns of the „but the whales..“ People?
I thought about this a lot:
No.
I mean, there are other options, as @dan explained in his post about 'proof of governance'.
But applicable for steem would only be n^x imo.
I mean, there are other options, as @dan explained in his post about 'proof of governance'.
But applicable for steem would only be n^x imo.
I'm honesly not a fan of n^2 - its to drastic because of the Whales (yes, said it).
Up to n^1,25 - ok, i see the reason for exponential but higher? Not in my opinion - thats to agressive.
Another point is that i think there should be an SP-CAP.
Being in the German Community i Hope you are familiar with how the "Bundesrat" works. At least 3 Votes for Hamburg (1 Mio Citizen)(Minnow), At most 6 Votes for NRW (18 Mio Citizen)(Whale). Why not match all Users in [100;10.000]SP - Would still be an 100:1 Comparison.
I think the Solution for the Whale-Problem doesn't and should be in the Payout function - as you said:
We can not fix this problem by employing a broken rewards distribution algorithm.
But i see no reason for not nerfing down really, really high SP-Values with an function between SP, VESTS and r_shares.
Anything that discourages holding large amounts of Steem gives the wrong economic signals and would devalue Steem.
It could also be gamed by just creating multiple accounts.
Just wanted to mention that n^2 in my Opinion would screw over valuable Indie-Content in the favor of the trending/hot page and that i think this loss is higher than some mad Whales.
For the reasons you mentioned i agree with n^1.1 or something like that, but n^2 would hurt the plattform because i'm still mostly seeing it as an Whale-beneficary "Shareholder-Value"-Principle.
Steem and Steam have much in common.
I'm not here for AAA-Whale Content which gets 100$+ as i haven't bought Starwars Battlefront 2 or AC: Origins from Steam. Just because something is hot it hasn't to be good and this plattform needs Indie Content. The Plattform is imo better off with 100x1$ for small Content (of which 20 may be direct or indirect self-Votes) than with all the money going to three trending posts.
In my opinion the Stakeholders on this plattform are more important for the long term growth than some Whales who maybe sell-off their Steem if we don't feed them enought.
But well - Shareholders vs. Stakeholders is an age old question and we don't need to be the same opinion on that.
Just wanted to mention that n^2 in my Opinion would screw over valuable Indie-Content in the favor of the trending/hot page and that i think this loss is higher than some mad Whales.
Everybody seems to misunderstand that n^2 would seriously screw with how the whales are taking profits out of steem right now.
I get the bit about Indie or 'second tier content', though.
I should have mentioned, that when n^2 was active, accounts also could vote 40 times/24 hours instead of 10 times.
There are a heaps more details to sort out, but I mainly want to establish a discussion around n^2 and leave those details out for now, because then the discussion is just overcomplicated.
On Steam ( yeah steam ) sometimes Indie content makes it to the top and surpasses AAA titles.
I want a STEEM, where this is also possible again.
BTW: I don't want to spin this too far, because I don't quite believe that we will ever get functioning smts, but if they were to come, then perhaps, you could create a community around your type of content and reward them with your community token and they wouldn't have to compete with AAA content on Steemit.
Fair Point.
Than let me ask a few more specific questions:
• Could an entirely new formula be implemented by the witnesses/Devs without an Fork?
• How Heavy Would the Network-Performance-Impact be when switching from simple functions (like linear/^2) to more Advanced stuff? Does this load applies to the witness-Servers and how much (more) Could they handle?
• Do you think an more complex Formula could solve the current Problem with the Crab, while still Match the concerns of the „but the whales..“ People?
Maybe there is an „Eierlegende-Woll-Milch-Sau“-Function out there.
No. That is the very definition of a hardfork.
It would require a change to the protocol and the majority of witness would have to run the new version of software.
Depends on the formula I suppose, but shouldn't create a performance issue.
I thought about this a lot:
No.
I mean, there are other options, as @dan explained in his post about 'proof of governance'.
But applicable for steem would only be n^x imo.
How far could you go with the existing protocoll?
N^2, Root(N), Sigmoid(N), VESTS*Upvote-Count ..
I'm honesly not a fan of n^2 - its to drastic because of the Whales (yes, said it).
Up to n^1,25 - ok, i see the reason for exponential but higher? Not in my opinion - thats to agressive.
Another point is that i think there should be an SP-CAP.
Being in the German Community i Hope you are familiar with how the "Bundesrat" works. At least 3 Votes for Hamburg (1 Mio Citizen)(Minnow), At most 6 Votes for NRW (18 Mio Citizen)(Whale). Why not match all Users in [100;10.000]SP - Would still be an 100:1 Comparison.
I think the Solution for the Whale-Problem doesn't and should be in the Payout function - as you said:
But i see no reason for not nerfing down really, really high SP-Values with an function between SP, VESTS and r_shares.Yeah, no thanks.
Anything that discourages holding large amounts of Steem gives the wrong economic signals and would devalue Steem.
It could also be gamed by just creating multiple accounts.
Read @dan; He really is a smart guy.
i've read his article you mentioned above.
Just wanted to mention that n^2 in my Opinion would screw over valuable Indie-Content in the favor of the trending/hot page and that i think this loss is higher than some mad Whales.
For the reasons you mentioned i agree with n^1.1 or something like that, but n^2 would hurt the plattform because i'm still mostly seeing it as an Whale-beneficary "Shareholder-Value"-Principle.
Steem and Steam have much in common.
I'm not here for AAA-Whale Content which gets 100$+ as i haven't bought Starwars Battlefront 2 or AC: Origins from Steam. Just because something is hot it hasn't to be good and this plattform needs Indie Content. The Plattform is imo better off with 100x1$ for small Content (of which 20 may be direct or indirect self-Votes) than with all the money going to three trending posts.
In my opinion the Stakeholders on this plattform are more important for the long term growth than some Whales who maybe sell-off their Steem if we don't feed them enought.
But well - Shareholders vs. Stakeholders is an age old question and we don't need to be the same opinion on that.
Everybody seems to misunderstand that n^2 would seriously screw with how the whales are taking profits out of steem right now.
I get the bit about Indie or 'second tier content', though.
I should have mentioned, that when n^2 was active, accounts also could vote 40 times/24 hours instead of 10 times.
There are a heaps more details to sort out, but I mainly want to establish a discussion around n^2 and leave those details out for now, because then the discussion is just overcomplicated.
On Steam ( yeah steam ) sometimes Indie content makes it to the top and surpasses AAA titles.
I want a STEEM, where this is also possible again.
BTW: I don't want to spin this too far, because I don't quite believe that we will ever get functioning smts, but if they were to come, then perhaps, you could create a community around your type of content and reward them with your community token and they wouldn't have to compete with AAA content on Steemit.