Don't Run Over Protestors. Ever.

in #news5 years ago

Something horrible happened the other day. "Allegedly" a Captain at an ICE detention facility rammed his truck through a number of Jewish protestors doing a sit in, blocking the parking lot.

TRIGGER WARNING: Crazy guy in a Truck Hitting Protestors

Now, this isn't to the level that we've seen in other incidents, where someone just mows down protestors.

My only guess is that he was pissed off and just wanted to get in to park his truck and was hoping the protestors would just move out of the way. But then they didn't move fast enough...and perhaps it was even that they touched his truck...so he stepped on the gas.

But that's just my interpretation of what I saw and guesses as to his motives.

I'm actually giving him the benefit of the doubt to a degree.

I don't know if he was just trying to get them to move. I don't know if maybe he's just a horrible driver and he stepped on the gas a bit too hard and the truck lurched forward. Maybe it was just sheer stupidity. It looked like intentional Vehicular Assault though.

He meant to threaten the protestors with running them over in my opinion. That's what it looked like. Whether it was attempted murder or something insane like that...that would be up to a jury likely, as all charges would be. We can't really know from a video what his intentions were.

Then the asshole apparently talked into a walkie talkie, possibly calling in backup, and a bunch of guards come over and pepper spray them all.

Total dick move. After you just use your vehicle to bash in to some civies, you call in your posse to pepper spray them?

Apparently 5 people were hospitalized, 2 for injuries related to being hit by the truck, including an elderly gentleman that suffered from a fractured leg and internal bleeding, and 3 additional people were hospitalized for severe exposure to pepper spray. Fucking lovely...

This is a horrible incident that was really hard for me to watch. But I don't know that I would normally talk about it.

So why am I?

After this incident, looking it up online, I started to see a trend in comments. Something that has happened previously with these sorts of incidents. People actually seemed to approve of it. Saying they shouldn't have been in the road. That they would do the same.

What the FUCK!?!

You know...I don't agree with a lot of people when it comes to a lot of politics. I'm extremely liberal in some regards, while conservative in others. I actually support the right to bare arms, which is almost unheard of these days on the "left". I support people's human rights. I support people's liberties to an extreme degree. But I don't support giving corporations free control to pollute in what is essentially our shared living space, Earth. So I can't even agree with libertarians a lot of the time.

But you know what I don't really expect to disagree with a lot of people on? Whether or not you should mow people down with your car.

Okay, granted, it wasn't like people were flying. But he did use his truck as a weapon, as a threat of force, and actually seriously injured someone. Then after that, the fucker called in his buddies to pepper spray them, because they didn't run and flee like he hoped.

He didn't get his way, so he threw a fucking temper tantrum. He was delayed from driving into the parking lot by some protestors.

What do you expect? There has been a major policy change where they are detaining thousands of immigrants all over the place, indefinitely, against a court order, in deplorable conditions. Many of them didn't commit any crime, because they are here seeking asylum. Others just wanted a better life. So yeah, some people are gonna protest. And some of those people are going to be Jewish, because they grew up hearing about the concentration camps from their grandparents and parents and even if it isn't to that level...it's still deplorable conditions, and some see it as racist.

I don't care if they were blocking a fucking parking lot. I don't care if they had been in the fucking road. They are pedestrians. They are people. They are not in cars. They have nothing protecting them. You should be seriously fucking careful when you are driving a big honking box made of steel that weighs possibly more than a fucking ton and has hundreds of horsepower under the hood.

But he wasn't careful. He used his truck as a weapon.

In my opinion. "Allegedly". On fucking video tape.

Now the captain has been "put on leave". Not fucking arrested. Not thrown down. Not ripped out of his truck. Not put in handcuffs. "Put on leave."

We've definitely heard that before with cops involved in shootings.

This may used his truck as a weapon...and he's just "put on leave."

But, more than I am even disturbed by his behavior, I am disturbed by the people online. He was one person that may or may not be an asshole with anger issues. He might have had a bad day. He might be fed up with protestors. He did a really fucking horrendous and stupid thing in a single moment. But people online? They type what they type. They see what they write. They enter it in. Then they click post. Then they leave it there.

I wish I could be assured that it was just Russian bots. Or mainly Russian bots. I wish it was just fake accounts saying horrible shit. Or a few sick bastards. But it's not.

Some of them are actually police officers. Lawyers even. Retired whatever the fucks. Normal fucking people. They see this action. They see someone push the gas when there are people in front of their truck, and they say that they would do the same. They say that it was their own fault. They say they shouldn't have been in the road.

Of course they were putting their lives on the line by blocking a parking lot. But they probably didn't realize that. They didn't realize that some fucking madman that happened to work at that facility and make it all the way up to captain might "allegedly" run them the fuck down. If they had, they wouldn't have brought their kids probably.

If this had been a normal person, they would have been dragged out of their car. They would have been pushed into the pavement. They would have had their arms forced behind their backs and put handcuffs on them. They probably would have had excessive force used on them. They would at the very fucking least have had guns drawn on them.

But what fucking happens to this guy? "Put on leave." Cop casually asks some questions. Doesn't do shit. Protestors get pepper sprayed after being hit by a fucking truck.

And then people actually encourage this behavior.

There was a time that people that encouraged horrible atrocious violent acts would be on the fringe. They would be the radical ones. Now they're fucking normal.

WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!

And so few people want to even say anything to them, because they're fucking crazy. And no one wants to back up the sane ones to say that it's fucking nutzo to encourage fucking killing people with a fucking car or truck.

Don't fucking kill people.

How is it that running over protestors is a fucking partisan issue?

FUCKING HELL!

There is something deeply fucking wrong here.

Sort:  

I'm not defending intentionally running down protesters as there's no excuse for that. However, I also don't think protesters have any right to block the free movement of others. Free speech is one thing, violating the rights of others is another. If necessary, they should be forcibly removed and/or arrested for that, not run over. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I think most people supporting what that driver did probably have the same general viewpoint but are overreacting. But some people are just assholes.

Taking the other viewpoint though, if you are traveling from point A to point B for whatever reason...maybe someone's life depends on it, maybe a loved one is dying at point B and you only have minutes to say your goodbyes, maybe you just like the view better at point B...and someone intentionally blocks your path, how much force should you be able to use to get them out of your way? I think what that driver did was wrong but I would feel differently if they allowed their truck to roll forward very slowly giving everyone ample opportunity to get out of the way. Then if someone got hurt it would be their own fault as far as I'm concerned. The driver has the right to go from point A to point B and the protesters don't have the right to prevent him from doing so (unless there's something I'm missing in these particular circumstances).

To address another comment you made, libertarians aren't for allowing corporations to pollute the earth, they just don't think the way to handle it is via regulatory agencies. It's through making corporations responsible for damage to property (including yourself and your health) through civil (or criminal depending on the circumstances) courts. There shouldn't be this massive, unintelligible and largely unnecessary and even counterproductive regulatory environment we have today that in large part has been built up by special interests. Part of the problem is that too much protection is given to those who incorporate and then as if to make up for that a complex regulatory system is devised over time. If someone or group at a company makes the conscious decision to dump poison known to cause harm and then someone is harmed then they should be held responsible, period. No regulation needed beyond basic laws that exist preventing people from knowingly or negligently harming others or their property. The system of checks and balances as far as lawmaking goes are largely circumvented by the creation of agencies (like the EPA) who are granted broad powers to essentially create their own laws (regulations).

I consider myself a libertarian though not necessarily a Libertarian (as in the party) and not an anarchist which is what many people who claim to be libertarian really are. I suppose if I were pure libertarian I would support completely open boarders which I do not. I think we've had this discussion before and I stipulate that there are a great many improvements that need to be made to the immigration system and I think that in general all non-criminal immigrants should be let in provided that they will not immediately become a public burden. The problem is that at a minimum you need a criminal background check. Depending on what country the immigrants are coming from, this can take months...maybe longer. I think Mexico is actually pretty quick, relatively speaking, but some other South American countries are not. So what do you do with immigrants who you are waiting for a background check for? They have to either be detained for the length of time it takes or sent back. What do you do with immigrants who are coming with no place to live, no immediate prospects for a job, don't speak English, etc.? I don't have an answer for that one but I don't think the answer can be that U.S. taxpayers are forced to solve that problem. To the extent that charitable organizations are willing and able to help such people or other individuals are willing to support them they should be let in but that might leave a considerable shortfall. But perhaps simply allowing in all immigrants with the caveats I mention would be enough to largely solve the problem. I don't know that it would though.

The comparison to concentration camps is nonsense and I generally won't even engage with people making such comparisons as they are obviously detached from reality, ignorant of history or otherwise incapable of reasoned discourse. If Nazis only detained illegal immigrants (Jewish or otherwise), fed them, gave them basic medical attention, didn't gas or otherwise torture or murder them, and allowed them to return where they came from, we wouldn't be talking about their concentration camps today for the "comparison" to even be made. They might as well compare the truck driver to Hitler why they are at it. A legitimate problem exists but that doesn't mean we need to resort to the most extreme hyperbole possible. It's counterproductive and only drives polarization on the issue. Clearly ICE workers and those that support border security are not generally Nazis and don't see themselves as such. How is accusing them of that going to help solve the problem? The whole mentality that "Either you agree with me or you are a racist, terrorist Nazi" has got to change or nothing else will.

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