My Very First Music Interview

Last week marked the 10 Year Anniversary of my first interview with Barbara Dennerlein, the very first person honored as Germany's Ambassador of Jazz.

It was published on the Internet's most popular jazz site AllAboutJazz.com, but it almost didn't happen. Barbara and I spoke for three hours at her home just outside of Munich and I was recording on my laptop using Audacity and I think I was running Windows XP back then. When we finished I hit the stop button and wanted to immediately store the audio file. Then Murhpy's Law struck -- When anything can go wrong it will, and at the worst possible time. I got the infamous frozen screen, and nothing helped -- it was gone. The size of a 3 hour Audacity audio project was just too much for my laptop.

That horrible feeling of panic and dread overcame me. Barbara's free time is precious, and the thought of wasting her time and losing such a great interview was distressing beyond description. Then I remembered, as an after-thought when we began the interview, I figured, why not hit the record button on my little MP3 player -- just in case. Suddenly I remembered I had done that -- I hadn't even yet remembered to stop the mp3 recording. So I stopped it and clicked through a half dozen menus to find out if it had worked. Thank God, it had worked, the sound was terrible, but I was able to transcribe the interview.

The publisher and managing editor were very enthusiastic with the end result, and told me I could interview anyone I wanted after that. That was the beginning of a very productive relationship with AllAboutJazz. My focus has been on top players, studio musicians who are famous among musicians themselves, and some extraordinary young talents. But let's get back to my interview with Barbara Dennerlein the great Hammond B3 player.

I'll never forget the first time I saw her on national TV in Germany. It was a show called JazzClub on ZDF. I tuned in because the great organist Jimmy Smith was a guest. When the announcer said a young German organist was going to play first, I was annoyed because I would have to wait -- I wanted to see Jimmy Smith!

When she did play, all my preconceived notions quickly vanished. Barbara Dennerlein was absolutely fantastic, the kind of extraordinary talent that skips generations. This has only happened to me a few times, but it was one of those moments like a traffic accident, when time seems to slow down. There is only one other living musician who evoked that feeling in me, it was the slide guitarist Derek Trucks -- whom I've also had the privilege to interview.

On top of her amazing musicianship, she was so poised and charming, and she had this wonderful Munich accent when she spoke German. Luckily, you can see the same video I saw that night -- which was not too long after I came to Germany from America.

During our interview she shared something with me that she really had not spoken about on the record, unless there is a German language article of which I'm not aware. In any case, as she spoke it was as if she were reliving this nightmare experience. It must have been an absolute trauma for a young performer getting her first really big break on national television -- but you would never know it watching the video. In the ten plus years I've known her, next to her musical talent, her nerves-of-steel are what impress me most.

So here is the section of the interview dealing with Jimmy Smith, as you read it, think of the video above.

Meeting Jimmy Smith

AAJ: You also met Jimmy Smith for the first time when you were fifteen.

BD: It was an organ competition, and actually I was a little bit angry, because the other organ players didn't play very well, but they played commercial music and that's what the people liked, and I played jazz music. So I came in second place. At the end everyone had to play one song again. And my father told me this because I had forgotten it, but I had asked Jimmy Smith if he would play with me, and understandably he said no. The first place player did the same song again, "Oh Carol," and I sat down and played something different, "On the Sunny Side of the Street" and suddenly I noticed someone came from behind me and he took my hair, I had very long hair, much longer than now, and he put it to the side, and then he sat down and he played with me. [laughs] So really, it was great.

AAJ: And you weren't expecting it at all?

BD: No, it was incredible of course, wonderful. And then people were so shocked about their decision—he played with me, the second place finalist. The third place finalist didn't even play again after that! [laughs] It was really funny, and afterwards we stayed in contact. And it was really nice, until he started to see me as a competitor.

Dennerlein and Jimmy Smith

AAJ: But you did stay in touch, when he was in Germany he called?

BD: We met up from time to time and I came when he played. When he was in Munich my Mom would drive us around. I remember once he was hungry and we stopped at a restaurant to eat, and he says, "Hello, I'm the famous Jimmy Smith, the world's greatest organ player, and I want my food very quickly!" Or it was something like that.

AAJ: [Laughs] And do you do that now in Germany?

BD: No, I'm a different personality type. [laughs]

AAJ: When you were twenty-two [1986] you recorded an outstanding LP with a big band entitled Tribute to Charlie [Parker] (Koala, 1987), and less than two years after that you were booked on Jazz Club [a popular German television program at the time] with Jimmy Smith. Suddenly the young girl he sat next to on the bench was appearing with him on the same show before a national audience.

You played Dizzy's "Night in Tunisia" with some really hot pedal work, a song Jimmy Smith had also recorded. I'm curious how things went backstage—For example, did he see you playing during the sound check, and did you talk?

BD: Yeah, I mean I didn't see him, but I'm sure he did. The story is, we were supposed to play together. I remember that very well, it was in Leonberg, fine weather, it was very nice—and he didn't talk to me. And I thought, well, we're playing in two hours, we should talk about what we are going to play. And then I met him in the hallway, and I said, "Hello! We're supposed to play together, should we talk about what we're going to play?" I said that to him and I've never seen someone getting such an angry face. And he was shivering [enraged] and says "What, you and me playing together, never. They don't pay me enough!" Really, those were his words, really angry.

So I'm thinking, "Whoops what's going on here," so then I went to the director and I said, "I just talked to Jimmy Smith and he's not going to play with me, maybe you should clear up the situation. I just tried to ask him what we are going to play—whatever," later he [the director] came and said, "Well if he would do it now would you still play with him?" And I said, "Well, you know of course I'm not happy about it, because I know from this reaction that we won't be playing with each other, this will be a playing against each other, a competition," and that's one thing I hate. I really hate to be on stage with people in that situation, trying to one-up each other, everyone tries to play quicker and louder to get the audience's attention, I hate that, I want to make music. But I said, "Okay, I mean, if you want me to do it, I will, but I'm not happy about it." And later he [the director] came and told me he wouldn't do it anyway.

And then, the thing is originally, Jimmy Smith was there with his quartet, and the show wanted to have me there solo, they thought I should play with Jimmy Smith's musicians. And I said in advance of that concert, I think this isn't a fair situation, because this is the band Jimmy Smith is playing with and they know each other and know the music, and you want me to play on the same show with musicians I don't know. At least I think I should have my drummer who knows my songs.

And in the end I was able to bring my drummer, and this was something which saved me you know, because then Jimmy Smith didn't allow his musicians to talk to me or to play with me. I remember sitting outside with his musicians and they were very, very nice and we were talking and we had fun, and then Jimmy Smith came out in the garden where we were sitting and immediately, you know, they stopped talking.

AAJ: It's strange, before that, the last time you saw each other you were friendly?

Barbara DennerleinBD: Yeah, I don't know, I remember one concert where I played in Munich and he [Jimmy Smith] told my father he should not tell me that he was there. And he stood behind a column. And he was very nice. And then suddenly at that ZDF Jazz Club—and I think he really heard me play that night, and maybe in a way that caused the shift. I was disappointed of course, but on the other hand I thought maybe I can understand him a little bit.

I try to see the other person's side. I think that because generations of organ players have copied Jimmy Smith, maybe this affects someone's thinking, you know what I mean, because it's a fact, almost all organ players copy Jimmy Smith. A few, like Larry Young, had their own style, but for the most part, it's always—Jimmy Smith is the greatest and I want to play like Jimmy Smith. Now don't get me wrong, of course he is fantastic, but why should everyone play like Jimmy Smith, that's boring.

AAJ: It's like if everyone tried to play sax like Charlie Parker...

BD: Yeah, or trumpet like Miles, whatever...

AAJ: Anything else you remember about him pre-Jazz Club?

BD: Sure, it was fun to be with him, he was a funny person in a positive sense. He had a great sense of humor and we laughed a lot. I mean I really liked that. But there's no particular story, I mean the problem is I've forgotten a lot, you know in my life so many things happen, and you can't remember it all.

AAJ: Help me to understand. From looking at videos it appears that on slow numbers Jimmy Smith played the bass on pedals, but on up tempo numbers he used his left hand and hit occasional notes on the pedals for emphasis. Is that basically true?

BD: That's exactly the point, and many of the older organ players played left-handed bass and they just hit the pedal bass, not for the note, but for the attack, the accent you know, but the notes were played with the left hand and the pedals were more of a rhythmic thing, you know like, "tuk tuk," maybe on slow songs he hit the note longer to emphasize the tone, but actually he didn't really play pedals.

AAJ: In terms of complex lines?

BD: Yes. So no, not really. Anyway, there are very few people who really play bass lines with their feet. On the other hand, it's really astonishing I think, because if you think of the classical organ, no classical organist would have any chance of success if he or she couldn't play the bass pedals. But in pop music, or jazz music, or rock music, people cut the organ to pieces and they just use the keyboard.

Given what you just read, wasn't her performance amazing?

Here's a link to the complete AAJ interview. It's been read over 85,000 times.

Barbara with a fraction of her music collection

Over the ensuing years I've interviewed Barbara a few more times, and I have also gotten to know her parents. Her father is an artist, a painter. When she was starting out he built a home recording studio, and also recorded some of her live gigs. He's given me and my wife a peek at some of his early treasures, and some of the first videos of her. For my last interview he allowed me to use some amazing audio on my site of her as a teenager in a Munich jazz club. LINK

How did all this get started? I had always been a huge admirer of her talent, and I was frustrated by how little recognition she got in English language media. So I wanted to change that, and when she played nearby I mentioned that if she ever needed a translation from German to English, I would be happy to help. (I'm fairly good at translating from German to English [my native language] but not very good the other way around.) It turned out I could and we worked together to try and get some things going in America, and I ended up translating the liner notes on a couple of CDs.

One thing which really increased her recognition outside of Europe was when I started an early YouTube channel for her. The very first video clip I uploaded (back then there were very small size limits for uploads) now has over 1.2 million views, and another clip has also passed the million mark.

As part of my plan to increase awareness of her, we did my very first music interview. Now thanks to her I have had the chance to interview several of my favorite musicians. As a matter of fact, on this coming Monday (Sep. 4th) AllAboutJazz has scheduled my interview with two of my favorites, and two of the best guitarists on the planet, John McLaughlin and Jimmy Herring. So I'm grateful to Barbara for the amazing experiences I've had interviewing great musicians.

A few years back the Hammond Organ company asked me to be on a jury of music journalists to select the first group of inductees into the Hammond Organ Hall of Fame. So I was able to nominate Barbara and give her the news that she was a member of the hall of fame. I don't know what you call the opposite of Murphy's Law, but Barbara and I have both experienced a bit of that too over the past ten years.

I've been hesitant to share my music passion here on Steemit, because of my newbie status, and some inherent limitations. For example, for the most part I've switched to audio interviews which I host on my site -- I don't use SoundCloud. Thus, there is no embedded audio player on our platform. Also, most of the support I've received so far on Steemit has come from the Deutsch tag community -- my interviews are in English, so the prospects aren't too promising. I do, however, want to try and share some interviews here -- especially with great young players. I may test the waters tomorrow with an interview with a very interesting guitarist who won a TV reality series.

All photos by @roused

Please cross your fingers for me.