Arguments without hate, a noble goal.
I have seen and been part of a lot of discussions on Steemit. Subjects vary but a common theme seems to be, to me, that people take sides and cliques form. We lock ourselves in an echo room that constantly confirms our own opinions. We block any opposing views and label those that express them as "enemies" or "haters".
I want to present a different take on what an argument is or maybe, what it can be:
a discussion at which end, you won't have made an enemy but discovered a worthy discussion partner.
a way to enrich your own position and better understand your stand on a subject.
How many times did you feel railed up and hyper after a heated discussion?
You know that feeling. You feel like the other guy is a MORON for not understanding your brilliant argument. I know that I get like that, and I NEED TO PROVE THAT PERSON WRONG! But that's just the thing, when I catch myself in that mode, I know I made it personal. I already lost, it's not about me or my ego. Most arguments are not personal and should not be.
I should be able to disagree with you on any subject and still be able to enjoy a beer together IF we essentially like each other.
There are a few ways to achieve this, and not let any heated debate transform into a roaring fire that eats up any possibility of an amicable relation in the future. For me, the first one is being very careful not to got "ad hominem"
It's so tempting to attack a person instead of its argument. It's so easy to call people idiots, stupid, close minded or a bunch of other stuff when what they say it's against your views or maybe even stupid.
Another knee-jerk reaction: to hear a different opinion as an attack against you.
To hear "you are not informed on the matter" as "You are an uneducated person", to think that someone is attacking the very essence of who you are instead of the essence of what you say. In other words, to take it personally. That's how all wars start.
It's a classic fallacy and we, all, have fallen in its trap. By remaining aware of its failing, can make us all better.
If you don't go on the ad hominem route then we are already headed towards a nice argument. Yet for that. So how to achieve that?
There is an art to the argument, something that in today's culture of "my opinion is as valuable as yours, my arguments are just as good" seems to have been forgotten. People study the art of debate since forever. Just read " The Apology of Socrates by Plato" and tell me that's not amazing.
Understand that you won't win most arguments.
In fact, there is no WIN. Maybe you are right, maybe I am right maybe that person is plain WRONG but the value of your arguments is not measured in how many "wrong" opinions you have changed. It's just not possible to change most people's mind even with a beautiful, logical and well supported argument. That's key here: You don't need the other side to admit defeat in order to "win".
If that's a goal, then you will always end up frustrated. You might always feel resentment towards people's obtuseness and resentments is a fertile ground for hate.
So what is the goal? For me, it's fine-tuning my own stand and keeping my mind opened to the counter-arguments. I usually end up understanding better why I believe what I believe. Sometimes,. I even realize I AM WRONG! [ ugh, not so often! ].
I believe in a code of conduct, in following...well, almost an algorithm to argument that tries to keep me honest to myself and not veer into pettiness and unnecessary attacks. In this great piece on Daniel Dennett, I have found a very good little guide that served as the skeleton to my argumentation online:
It's easy to follow and easy to apply..unless, I get heated and too passionate and fail. I fail a lot, i admit, because i usually argue over subjects that are very dear to me. But then, isn't everyone?
Which leads me to my final point.
Empathy towards the other person's state of mind and motives is necessary.
Sometimes, you need to forgive someone for going personal or understand his reasons. Sometimes you can forget even if you don't understand and think it's unfair. A humane and forgiving attitude, especially online, will save you time, energy and mental fatigue.
Holding onto resentment and hate is the most irrational thing to do: it's like holding on hot coal and hoping for the other person to get burned, it will only hurt yourself more.
That's why, at the end of the day, I try to LET IT GO.
But you might say:
All this is such a nice and peaceful view, nobody can live by it! People are not cool. They are nasty, hateful, vindictive and vicious, just look in the comment sections of any YouTube video, just look on Reddit. Those people don't deserve our empathy and common sense, they deserve our downvotes and our disgust!
I agree some people are just the worst. And I do agree applying this mentality to all arguments, all the time is hard and probably impossible. But I try and try.
I try the most because most people are not trolls, especially on Steemit. Most people are people I actually can respect, that I don't want to burn bridges with over an argument. It shouldn't be hard that hard to do that. I already do that with my friends, we argue and at the end of the day, we agree to disagree. We remain friends.
How much of a cool head you can keep in an argument is up to you, but my take is, the more the better.
Unless I argue with an absolute troll, I want to always leave a little space for peace. I value peace more than I value being always right.
Because if I win an argument, but lose a friend, what have I really won?
Counterpoint: if you can't squat your body-weight to proper depth your argument is invalid. Discuss.
agreed.
Yes. Bring on the rational disagreement and opposition to a subject or post. No problem there. If a correction or clarity can be brought through exposing an error, I welcome it. I seek to be corrected if I am wrong.
But some people are douches, pretending they are "intellectually" superior and resort to baseless insults and name calling instead of focusing on the actual subject at hand. Some people seem to prefer that, to dismiss a post without actually addressing a single point made, and brush it off with nonsensical mockery.
Here is an example from someone many on Steemit view as a "smart" person who is well liked by many:
That's not disagreeing in any valid way, that's just being an asshole. They, and many people, could clearly learn a lot from your post, through I doubt they would care to. They seem to think they are "right" for ignoring a subject and trying ti ignorantly dismiss it or belittle the person who wrote it, simply because they "don't like it". It's childish immature behavior.
Take care. Peace.
Great post Raz. This pretty much sums it up for me. If people can think of this when they are arguing, the world would be more peaceful. I think our discussion earlier was very similar to this. So much depends on one's point of view...
But in the end, we can both agree on the big picture "It's a number"... until someone comes along and points out that is also the letter "g". Then, if we are intelligent we will change our stance to. 'It's a number or a letter".
You have it right there with that picture and your comment my friend
it's a good analogy :)
Of course, sometimes it's just a number and someone wants to make it letter but what can you do :D
I am all about a good fight. I just define a good fight as one that ends with resolution. :)
actually your discussion with smooth was great inspiration for this post and so were you!
Haha that is the worst! Half way through a heated argument you realize it is you that is in the wrong...
then i'd say...you had a good partner :D it's so hard to admit you are wrong. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO hard.
PS: I'm not.
Run forrest Run!!
Great post. Thank you for writing it.
glad you enjoy it!
Because if I win an argument, but lose a friend, what have I really won?
A good argument could open the awareness of your friend, what can change his perspective or point of view or state of mind.
You will win nothing but gain a new improved friend, like it's an upgrade.
He gained more knowledge!!
Or he cant accept the argument, because he don't see it like a good argument.
And then you might lose a friend.
That wound mean that he was never a friend, that only means that he/she don't understand yet how to see the truth of your argument.
Unfortunately that is for many enough to break a friendship, while this exactly prove that the angry friend just need more knowledge about what a good or bad argument really is.
How do you take your arguments: hot or cold?
The first thing I do is breath, IL take a few big breaths and then Il focus on the argument.
The next thing I do is focus on if the argument is legit, if yes then IL look if the person is right or correct with his argument.
Il have to see some evidence of his argument and .....If the person is right, then Il accept it as the truth.
you know there are ethics to belief?
MUST we accept anything in the face of fact?
SHOULD we?
Important questions, knowledge and upgraded views are not necessary friends all the time:)
Thank you for the comment
Only if you verified it with evidence, then il accept it as a fact and then i can see it as a new truth.
The most common problem is , many people never learn how to go in dialog with each other or how to make discussions.
Many people use non arguments to make a point, because that is what they had learned from others.
Or they do that on purpose to mislead others.
Or they dont know what a fallacy is, and there for dont know how to reconize one or how to protect themself against one.
There for the first thing i do is, find out if it's a real argument or not.
And if yes, then il search for the source to find out if the argument is legit.
Or il dismiss the argument with another argument build up with a source.
This is what i do with everyone, and i must confess not many people accept that.
Some get angry or walk away.
There are not many people around who will say, yes you are right ...I searched for the evidence of your argument and i found it right here... you are correct mister.
So from the 100 people, maybe 5 said something like that.
And i debated with many believers or non believers.
And you welcome, i like your post so i had to said something :)
And you welcome, i like your post so i had to said something :)
Absolutely, it's important as you say to keep your mind open to the counter arguments. I am always open to a good bit of discussion. With the proviso that I am always right of course ;0)
Haha! I wrote this same article yesterday, though not quite as well-put.I chose not to post it because the framing was too emotionally loaded. You make my own points better than I could because of being able to create more emotional distance. I'm thrilled to read this.
I definitely prefer to persuade by being compassionate and clear. It's so much easier to start talking down to someone for being ignorant than to realize they may just need a key piece of information to change their mind. I clearly prefer cool argumentation, though not cold.
Thanks a lot, it's quite amazing to heard this kind of praise....and humbling.
Pshaw! You're one of the people adding real value to Steemit and it's inspiring.
Finding ways to keep an open mind and unbiased within a conversation or while reading a posts is difficult. Those critical commentary step are solid.
My own little method for steemit it this:
Was the post "value add." If it any way added value to the community through knowledge, catalyst for discussion, etc. I will upvote, even if I completely disagree with the point being made.
And then of course...if it entertains me then upvoted as well. I'm a simple creature..LOL
I see no reason to argue with a post I do not approve. I rarely comment on stuff like that. What's the point?
Still, I do upvote good content myself even if it does not mean much to me, personally. I like a good effort!